4 ms·

> An African Union official told the BBC developed countries were to blame for the emergence of the variant. > "What is going on right now is inevitable, it's

> An African Union official told the BBC developed countries were to blame for the emergence of the variant. > "What is going on right now is inevitable, it's a result of the world's failure to vaccinate in an equitable, urgent and speedy manner. It is as a result of hoarding [of vaccines] by high-income countries of the world, and quite frankly it is unacceptable," said AU vaccine delivery alliance co-chair Ayoade Alakija. > "These travel bans are based in politics, and not in science. It is wrong... Why are we locking away Africa when this virus is already on three continents?" True words spoken clearly. The fact my country was unwilling to pass vaccine mandates when there was time but kept hording vaccines and not donating them to poorer countries will go down as a mark of shame. It has also served as a counter example I like to use now that representative democracy doesn't function as a safeguard against populism - passing strict pandemic laws even though they might be unpopular didn't happen, so why not just let the people vote?

dotancohen 5y ago
> representative democracy doesn't function as a safeguard against populism Why would you think that "rule of the people" might function as a safeguard against "things that are popular with the people"? Democracy may be many things, but a safeguard against all evil it is not.
- igorkraw 5y ago
  I'm specifically shitting on representative democracy. Part of the reason I'm trying to emigrate to switzerland is it's direct democracy, which I find has all of the benefits of a representative systems while alleviating some key drawbacks
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    For what it's worth, Libya was a direct democracy as well. Google for the Green Book.
    - igorkraw 5y ago
      Thanks, this is interesting, but I'd argue you need to distinguish between the label and what's actually being lived. Swiss direct democracy has concrete effects when votes happen, I don't know if that was true in Gaddafis Libya as well? (I assume not)
      - dotancohen 5y ago
        The Arab reports and European reports differ on that point. As you look into it I'll remind you that Libya is an oil-rich nation, very close to Europe, and I urge you to compare the actions used to justify the anti-Gaddafi interference with the actions of other nations who were not subject to European interference. I'm an Israeli Jew, I have no love for Libya and they no love for me. But in my opinion it is very clear why Gaddafi was overthrown, and it fits a pattern.
jollybean 5y ago
"These travel bans are based in politics, and not in science" They are based in science. BC Health Data shows very directly that BC was mostly infected by the US, not China or Europe. We also know from NZ and AUZ experience that borders matter. In most cases it will be impossible to 'lock it out' but it will definitely be possible to slow the tide. "unwilling to pass vaccine mandates when there was time but kept hording vaccines " Those issues are unrelated, not really populist, and the UK was not 'hoarding vaccines'.
- igorkraw 5y ago
  The UK maybe not, but my country of Germany was (source in german https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/kontraste/vernichtung-impfstoff-103.html https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/kontraste/vernichtung...). Or rather: it omitted to ensure it could pass on vaccines that it would by and is not sticking to the contract it signed with the vaccine suppliers.
sofixa 5y ago
> It has also served as a counter example I like to use now that representative democracy doesn't function as a safeguard against populism - passing strict pandemic laws even though they might be unpopular didn't happen, so why not just let the people vote? It did happen in many representative democracies so i don' think you can draw conclusions just based on that.
- igorkraw 5y ago
  True, although one could argue that it happened too often to late. My go to example is still Brexit which was a legally non-binding referendum and still got passed into law despite a system very much designed to "constrain populism" (at least that's the one excuse that everyone falls back to whenever one brings up the concentration of power onto the representatives, independent of the horrible FPTP system)

dotancohen 5y ago

> representative democracy doesn't function as a safeguard against populism Why would you think that "rule of the people" might function as a safeguard against "things that are popular with the people"? Democracy may be many things, but a safeguard against all evil it is not.

igorkraw 5y ago
I'm specifically shitting on representative democracy. Part of the reason I'm trying to emigrate to switzerland is it's direct democracy, which I find has all of the benefits of a representative systems while alleviating some key drawbacks
- dotancohen 5y ago
  For what it's worth, Libya was a direct democracy as well. Google for the Green Book.
  - igorkraw 5y ago
    Thanks, this is interesting, but I'd argue you need to distinguish between the label and what's actually being lived. Swiss direct democracy has concrete effects when votes happen, I don't know if that was true in Gaddafis Libya as well? (I assume not)
    - dotancohen 5y ago
      The Arab reports and European reports differ on that point. As you look into it I'll remind you that Libya is an oil-rich nation, very close to Europe, and I urge you to compare the actions used to justify the anti-Gaddafi interference with the actions of other nations who were not subject to European interference. I'm an Israeli Jew, I have no love for Libya and they no love for me. But in my opinion it is very clear why Gaddafi was overthrown, and it fits a pattern.

jollybean 5y ago

"These travel bans are based in politics, and not in science" They are based in science. BC Health Data shows very directly that BC was mostly infected by the US, not China or Europe. We also know from NZ and AUZ experience that borders matter. In most cases it will be impossible to 'lock it out' but it will definitely be possible to slow the tide. "unwilling to pass vaccine mandates when there was time but kept hording vaccines " Those issues are unrelated, not really populist, and the UK was not 'hoarding vaccines'.

igorkraw 5y ago
The UK maybe not, but my country of Germany was (source in german https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/kontraste/vernichtung-impfstoff-103.html https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/kontraste/vernichtung...). Or rather: it omitted to ensure it could pass on vaccines that it would by and is not sticking to the contract it signed with the vaccine suppliers.

sofixa 5y ago

> It has also served as a counter example I like to use now that representative democracy doesn't function as a safeguard against populism - passing strict pandemic laws even though they might be unpopular didn't happen, so why not just let the people vote? It did happen in many representative democracies so i don' think you can draw conclusions just based on that.

igorkraw 5y ago
True, although one could argue that it happened too often to late. My go to example is still Brexit which was a legally non-binding referendum and still got passed into law despite a system very much designed to "constrain populism" (at least that's the one excuse that everyone falls back to whenever one brings up the concentration of power onto the representatives, independent of the horrible FPTP system)