5 ms·

Look out for (keep away from) US residential lock brands, like Schlage or anything you can buy at Home Depot. Newer Kwikset locks are OK but still susceptible t

Look out for (keep away from) US residential lock brands, like Schlage or anything you can buy at Home Depot. Newer Kwikset locks are OK but still susceptible to some more moderate attacks with a shim. In general, try to get any “rated” European lock. They have standards for pick resistance and brute force resistance unlike retail US locks. Look for something with dimple pins, an active element, or multiple pin stacks with security pins, trap pins (anti tamper). With all that said I don’t think the low security locks we have are such a problem. You can break a window open or just find an unlocked door if you are looking to do some bad shit. I like how Schuyler Towne put it: locks are just a social contract. I’m saying, hey, don't go opening that door, and as a civil society we agree not to. A higher security lock on your home isn’t going to make your flimsy door harder to kick down, or your window harder to break, so yeah it’s nice to be educated on the security trade offs you make physically, but I’m not sure it’s important to beef up residential security in the US.

mongol 5y ago
I don't agree that locks are "just" a social contract. If they were, the most simple and cheap lock would be sufficient for everything. They are a social contract, but they are also for theft prevention. Those people that are determined to take something from you don't care about that contract and you need as good lock as possible to make it hard for them.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- codezero 5y ago
  But attacking the lock is the last thing a smart or determined person will do. Sure a better lock helps, this is why most modern cars have much better locks than homes, but even they can be easily opened with the right tools, and often even easier with improvised tools. Most locks really are cheap and sufficient for everything, in the US, at least, because we are using them right now. Schlage and Master Lock are everywhere and I taught my sister to pick them in a single sitting over drinks. Even the most common combination locks are easily openable without any tools whatsoever. All those key holding real estate locks are even easier to open than the doors the containing key opens. But remember, social contracts of all kinds get broken, and that’s why we have a justice system.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Eelongate 5y ago
    > But attacking the lock is the last thing a smart or determined person will do. I think that is contextual. In a whole lot of apartment buildings, the windows into the apartment are inaccessible from the outside. The door frame is metal, so kicking down the door would wake half the apartment building. Without a lock on the door, anybody who got into the building (generally easy) could silently enter any unoccupied apartment and nobody would know it. But with a good lock, nearly every would-be thief who can't pick locks will go someplace else.
    - novok 5y ago
      Most thieves DGAF that their target knows that they've been broken into. They want to get stuff to sell later, they want to be in and out very quickly, and they tend not to be the smartest people out there, and having lock picks increases your jail time if caught. When a thief steals, you are going to notice the missing items either way, a broken window doesn't change that much. Apartment dwellers also tend to be poorer, which makes homes the better target in more ways than one. If the lock is too hard, your just getting more bashed in doors or walls instead, or thieves / creeps climbing porches and going in that way, which happened recently in my area. Many porches are windows and often unlocked. Also many apartments are not steel framed with steel doors. I have a skinny window in the interior wall of mine, and it's a solid wood door on a wood frame. Also you could get a sledge hammer and bash through the drywall. Or bring drills and take out the door that way. Also having a fancy lock might actually make you more attractive, because the thief casing out your place might recognize it, think you might have more than the typical person and bring the appropriate battery powered tool and cut out the lock.
formerly_proven 5y ago
To be perfectly honest, I'm amazed how bad physical security is in the residential and even commercial US space. E.g. just the fact that deadlatches, which rely on precise alignment of door and frame to actually be locked, are a thing is amazing. The Euro-stuff has some other issues (cylinder snapping), but at least the bolt-for-locking is literally just a 8x40 mm bolt that goes into the doorframe. I've also never even seen a flat doorframe profile - not even bathroom stalls have them. Manipulating stuff on the other side becomes pretty easy if there's a 9.3/64" gap between door and frame.
- codezero 5y ago
  And yet, I would bet money that thefts in the US rarely are from lock manipulation (picking, drilling, but maybe brute force eg door frame). We have too many accessible windows in the US, and a lot lower density, maybe this is why Euro locks are more advanced, but regulation is also a factor, we don’t have it here, at least in residential, which makes me wonder if we need it (I assume our insurance system effectively covers the risk)
  - formerly_proven 5y ago
    Most of what I wrote is not about lock manipulation.
Twisol 5y ago
> You can break a window open or just find an unlocked door if you are looking to do some bad shit. > A higher security lock on your home isn’t going to make your flimsy door harder to kick down, or your window harder to break From the keynote, that's why LPL puts a heavy focus on bike locks, gun safe locks, etc. The audiences for those locks have a more vested interest in physical security than mere "social conventions". A well-locked bike makes it more difficult for a thief to get all the / enough value from the target. A well-locked gun safe prevents accidents and saves lives. Also, I live in an apartment on an upper floor. No accessible windows. The only viable way into my residence is through the front door. (There are like two RFID-gated doors before mine, but tailgating renders them pretty ineffectual, and let's not talk about elevator security. [0]) It's not worth it for me to put a better lock on my door, but I'm also not kidding myself about its effectiveness. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHf1vD5_b5I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHf1vD5_b5I

mongol 5y ago

I don't agree that locks are "just" a social contract. If they were, the most simple and cheap lock would be sufficient for everything. They are a social contract, but they are also for theft prevention. Those people that are determined to take something from you don't care about that contract and you need as good lock as possible to make it hard for them.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
codezero 5y ago
But attacking the lock is the last thing a smart or determined person will do. Sure a better lock helps, this is why most modern cars have much better locks than homes, but even they can be easily opened with the right tools, and often even easier with improvised tools. Most locks really are cheap and sufficient for everything, in the US, at least, because we are using them right now. Schlage and Master Lock are everywhere and I taught my sister to pick them in a single sitting over drinks. Even the most common combination locks are easily openable without any tools whatsoever. All those key holding real estate locks are even easier to open than the doors the containing key opens. But remember, social contracts of all kinds get broken, and that’s why we have a justice system.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Eelongate 5y ago
  > But attacking the lock is the last thing a smart or determined person will do. I think that is contextual. In a whole lot of apartment buildings, the windows into the apartment are inaccessible from the outside. The door frame is metal, so kicking down the door would wake half the apartment building. Without a lock on the door, anybody who got into the building (generally easy) could silently enter any unoccupied apartment and nobody would know it. But with a good lock, nearly every would-be thief who can't pick locks will go someplace else.
  - novok 5y ago
    Most thieves DGAF that their target knows that they've been broken into. They want to get stuff to sell later, they want to be in and out very quickly, and they tend not to be the smartest people out there, and having lock picks increases your jail time if caught. When a thief steals, you are going to notice the missing items either way, a broken window doesn't change that much. Apartment dwellers also tend to be poorer, which makes homes the better target in more ways than one. If the lock is too hard, your just getting more bashed in doors or walls instead, or thieves / creeps climbing porches and going in that way, which happened recently in my area. Many porches are windows and often unlocked. Also many apartments are not steel framed with steel doors. I have a skinny window in the interior wall of mine, and it's a solid wood door on a wood frame. Also you could get a sledge hammer and bash through the drywall. Or bring drills and take out the door that way. Also having a fancy lock might actually make you more attractive, because the thief casing out your place might recognize it, think you might have more than the typical person and bring the appropriate battery powered tool and cut out the lock.

formerly_proven 5y ago

To be perfectly honest, I'm amazed how bad physical security is in the residential and even commercial US space. E.g. just the fact that deadlatches, which rely on precise alignment of door and frame to actually be locked, are a thing is amazing. The Euro-stuff has some other issues (cylinder snapping), but at least the bolt-for-locking is literally just a 8x40 mm bolt that goes into the doorframe. I've also never even seen a flat doorframe profile - not even bathroom stalls have them. Manipulating stuff on the other side becomes pretty easy if there's a 9.3/64" gap between door and frame.

codezero 5y ago
And yet, I would bet money that thefts in the US rarely are from lock manipulation (picking, drilling, but maybe brute force eg door frame). We have too many accessible windows in the US, and a lot lower density, maybe this is why Euro locks are more advanced, but regulation is also a factor, we don’t have it here, at least in residential, which makes me wonder if we need it (I assume our insurance system effectively covers the risk)
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  Most of what I wrote is not about lock manipulation.

Twisol 5y ago

> You can break a window open or just find an unlocked door if you are looking to do some bad shit. > A higher security lock on your home isn’t going to make your flimsy door harder to kick down, or your window harder to break From the keynote, that's why LPL puts a heavy focus on bike locks, gun safe locks, etc. The audiences for those locks have a more vested interest in physical security than mere "social conventions". A well-locked bike makes it more difficult for a thief to get all the / enough value from the target. A well-locked gun safe prevents accidents and saves lives. Also, I live in an apartment on an upper floor. No accessible windows. The only viable way into my residence is through the front door. (There are like two RFID-gated doors before mine, but tailgating renders them pretty ineffectual, and let's not talk about elevator security. [0]) It's not worth it for me to put a better lock on my door, but I'm also not kidding myself about its effectiveness. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHf1vD5_b5I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHf1vD5_b5I