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"who gets to decide" it's called "we the people" or democracy if you will. We as a society decide that cryptocurrency aren't worth destroying the world over, a

"who gets to decide" it's called "we the people" or democracy if you will. We as a society decide that cryptocurrency aren't worth destroying the world over, and that's about it.

trompetenaccoun 5y ago
It's funny "we the people" always decide this when it's about something that would actually empower us. Meanwhile, "we" didn't only not ban cars, "we" destroyed public transport in the US and lobbied the government to massively subsidize roads and cars. Just as an example. It's curious how much agitation there is concerning the energy consumption of PoW. I don't see nearly as many articles calling for restricting AWS & co. Coincidentally Bitcoin is the base layer of a decentralized finance world completely out of the control of traditional elites and banks.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  Bitcoin is the base layer of a decentralized finance world completely out of the control of the traditional elites and banks, yes. It's also a new finance world completely under the control of an even smaller elite of devs and mining pool owners (see the hard fork of Ethereum that happened a long time ago, and the upcoming fork of Ethereum that will move it to PoS; sure, Ethereum isn't Bitcoin, but there is nothing fundamentally different to prevent Bitcoin taking a similar step whenever the devs and miners decide). What Bitcoin definitely is not is a new currency where the people have any kind of control. It is actively opposed to that goal, and takes away even the slight chance of a benevolent leader that exists with central bank controlled currencies.
  - floatboth 5y ago
    > elite of devs and mining pool owners You forgot a (perhaps even more) crucial part: the exchanges/stablecoins! They're the whole reason this clown show is considered "finance" rather than funbux. And they're all extremely suspicious. And by suspicious I mean obviously fraudulent. The value of Bitcoin (!) is propped up by Tether printing fake dollars backed by nothing.
justusw 5y ago
But we the people is usually restricted to one country. How do you get multiple countries to cooperate and ban cryptocurrency mining?
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  By convincing the people in all of those country to vote the same way - ideally through pure argument, realistically through various carrot and stick negotiation techniques. This is really not rocket science.
yrral 5y ago
If bitcoin mining uses renewable power (and pays for it), is that destroying the world or is that encouraging renewable adoption? If bitcoin mining uses co2 producing power (because the economics supports it), is that the fault of bitcoin or the government for not sufficiently taxing the negative externalities of that means of production?
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  Using power is never a net good, regardless of the type of power. If we don't need more power for something specific, the ideal is to just not build more power - consumption is not some noble goal. Unless we believe that Bitcoin has some use, its power consumption would be problematic even if it weren't so monstrously large. And vanishingly few people believe Bitcoin has any value beyond a get rich quick scheme.
- marginalia_nu 5y ago
  The point isn't to increase the proportion of renewable power, but to decrease the total amount of non-renewable power. 10% renewables is the same as 90% renewables if the remaining consumption is the same total amount. There is no market in the world where you are going to decrease consumption by increasing the demand. That's just not how economics works.

"who gets to decide" it's called "we the people" or democracy if you will. We as a society decide that cryptocurrency aren't worth destroying the world over, and that's about it.

trompetenaccoun 5y ago

It's funny "we the people" always decide this when it's about something that would actually empower us. Meanwhile, "we" didn't only not ban cars, "we" destroyed public transport in the US and lobbied the government to massively subsidize roads and cars. Just as an example. It's curious how much agitation there is concerning the energy consumption of PoW. I don't see nearly as many articles calling for restricting AWS & co. Coincidentally Bitcoin is the base layer of a decentralized finance world completely out of the control of traditional elites and banks.

tsimionescu 5y ago
Bitcoin is the base layer of a decentralized finance world completely out of the control of the traditional elites and banks, yes. It's also a new finance world completely under the control of an even smaller elite of devs and mining pool owners (see the hard fork of Ethereum that happened a long time ago, and the upcoming fork of Ethereum that will move it to PoS; sure, Ethereum isn't Bitcoin, but there is nothing fundamentally different to prevent Bitcoin taking a similar step whenever the devs and miners decide). What Bitcoin definitely is not is a new currency where the people have any kind of control. It is actively opposed to that goal, and takes away even the slight chance of a benevolent leader that exists with central bank controlled currencies.
- floatboth 5y ago
  > elite of devs and mining pool owners You forgot a (perhaps even more) crucial part: the exchanges/stablecoins! They're the whole reason this clown show is considered "finance" rather than funbux. And they're all extremely suspicious. And by suspicious I mean obviously fraudulent. The value of Bitcoin (!) is propped up by Tether printing fake dollars backed by nothing.

justusw 5y ago

But we the people is usually restricted to one country. How do you get multiple countries to cooperate and ban cryptocurrency mining?

tsimionescu 5y ago
By convincing the people in all of those country to vote the same way - ideally through pure argument, realistically through various carrot and stick negotiation techniques. This is really not rocket science.

yrral 5y ago

If bitcoin mining uses renewable power (and pays for it), is that destroying the world or is that encouraging renewable adoption? If bitcoin mining uses co2 producing power (because the economics supports it), is that the fault of bitcoin or the government for not sufficiently taxing the negative externalities of that means of production?

tsimionescu 5y ago
Using power is never a net good, regardless of the type of power. If we don't need more power for something specific, the ideal is to just not build more power - consumption is not some noble goal. Unless we believe that Bitcoin has some use, its power consumption would be problematic even if it weren't so monstrously large. And vanishingly few people believe Bitcoin has any value beyond a get rich quick scheme.
marginalia_nu 5y ago
The point isn't to increase the proportion of renewable power, but to decrease the total amount of non-renewable power. 10% renewables is the same as 90% renewables if the remaining consumption is the same total amount. There is no market in the world where you are going to decrease consumption by increasing the demand. That's just not how economics works.