5 ms·

Because of mandatory voting, Australia is one of the very few countries in the world where the government has real democratic legitimacy. A very large percentag

Because of mandatory voting, Australia is one of the very few countries in the world where the government has real democratic legitimacy. A very large percentage of the population votes, voting is easy, the voting systems are preferential and reasonably fair, and so a majority of the voting population actually did vote for the government of the day. The Australian system is certainly not without its issues, but it is far better than most other countries in the world, especially the madness of the US federal FPP system. I suspect that this is why Australians are seen to be complaint/obedient. It’s because we know that half of us explicitly voted for this government - either directly or indirectly through preferences - and if it fucks up too much they will change their minds and this mob will be gone (and good riddance if you ask me). I believe that this is also why Australian politics is quite centrist relative to many other counties.

joeman1000 5y ago
But both of the two main parties do relatively the same shit. It’s like choosing between Pump water or Mount Franklin… either way you get a raw deal.
- doctor_eval 5y ago
  I don’t really agree. Unless one is actively seeking a diverse media diet, what we see of both parties is heavily influenced by media concentration. As a country, we largely see what Murdoch’s media wants us to see, so any kind of progressive action or policy of the Labor party is going to be painted in a negative light for most people. This was a huge problem for Julia Gillard in particular. Despite being one of the most effective prime ministers in Australian history[0] you didn’t hear about this from the MSM at the time. Supposedly serious commentators complained in the Murdoch press about her _choice of clothing_ [1]. With powerful filters like this, blurring the achievements and policies of even the very leader of the government of the day, it’s always going to be difficult to distinguish between the parties. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jun/28/australia-productive-prime-minister https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jun/28/austra... [1] https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/article/2021/09/09/australias-female-politicians-gillard-legacy https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/article/2021/09/09/australias-f...
- throw868788 5y ago
  While there are upsides to compulsory voting this is one of its downsides IMO. Because you can't "refrain to vote" the parties know all they have to be is slightly better than the alternative and they will get your vote. In some ways it entrenches the two-party preferred system and means they only have to differentiate on minor issues. In the end they don't have to be good to get your vote, they just have to be slightly better than the next party in line. If you are not satisfied with either party you still need to vote. Even if you vote for a minor party you know many who aren't as engaged in politics will vote for one of the two majors anyway on relative, not absolute basis limiting the power of your "politically engaged" vote. That's my impression of Australia's politics. There's no perfect system.
  - doctor_eval 5y ago
    I don’t really agree. All parties monitor the flow of preferences very carefully and this is an important means for the electorate to signal the need for change. Plus, not voting is not the same as voting differently. We are also witnessing a significant shift to minor and independent parties, as voters are apparently becoming less affiliated with specific parties over time. Most people I know consider their vote carefully, even if they don’t vote the way I do. In any case, while the Australian system is far from perfect, it does lend greater legitimacy to the incumbent government, and has the effect that if the government you personally voted for does something you don’t like, next time you’re more likely to vote differently.
mdoms 5y ago
The state of Australian politics is a complete and utter shambles. Every single Australian should be thoroughly embarrassed by this. In my opinion mandatory voting is up there among the very worst, most destructive forces any democracy has undergone.
- doctor_eval 5y ago
  The politics of half the Anglosphere is pretty much a dumpster fire relative to Australia, so it’s hard to accept your position. In terms of destructive forces in Australian politics, I think the lack of media diversity is far and away the greatest threat to our country - far ahead of requiring the governed to have a say in who governs them.
- mecha_ghidorah 5y ago
  Can you please expand on how mandatory voting has lead to harm? I'm genuinely not able to imagine how you can lay the blame for the current state of Australian politics on it
879r9p6292 5y ago
Can you really say electoral participation confers 'real democratic legitimacy' when it's coerced?

joeman1000 5y ago

But both of the two main parties do relatively the same shit. It’s like choosing between Pump water or Mount Franklin… either way you get a raw deal.

doctor_eval 5y ago
I don’t really agree. Unless one is actively seeking a diverse media diet, what we see of both parties is heavily influenced by media concentration. As a country, we largely see what Murdoch’s media wants us to see, so any kind of progressive action or policy of the Labor party is going to be painted in a negative light for most people. This was a huge problem for Julia Gillard in particular. Despite being one of the most effective prime ministers in Australian history[0] you didn’t hear about this from the MSM at the time. Supposedly serious commentators complained in the Murdoch press about her _choice of clothing_ [1]. With powerful filters like this, blurring the achievements and policies of even the very leader of the government of the day, it’s always going to be difficult to distinguish between the parties. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jun/28/australia-productive-prime-minister https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jun/28/austra... [1] https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/article/2021/09/09/australias-female-politicians-gillard-legacy https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/article/2021/09/09/australias-f...
throw868788 5y ago
While there are upsides to compulsory voting this is one of its downsides IMO. Because you can't "refrain to vote" the parties know all they have to be is slightly better than the alternative and they will get your vote. In some ways it entrenches the two-party preferred system and means they only have to differentiate on minor issues. In the end they don't have to be good to get your vote, they just have to be slightly better than the next party in line. If you are not satisfied with either party you still need to vote. Even if you vote for a minor party you know many who aren't as engaged in politics will vote for one of the two majors anyway on relative, not absolute basis limiting the power of your "politically engaged" vote. That's my impression of Australia's politics. There's no perfect system.
- doctor_eval 5y ago
  I don’t really agree. All parties monitor the flow of preferences very carefully and this is an important means for the electorate to signal the need for change. Plus, not voting is not the same as voting differently. We are also witnessing a significant shift to minor and independent parties, as voters are apparently becoming less affiliated with specific parties over time. Most people I know consider their vote carefully, even if they don’t vote the way I do. In any case, while the Australian system is far from perfect, it does lend greater legitimacy to the incumbent government, and has the effect that if the government you personally voted for does something you don’t like, next time you’re more likely to vote differently.

mdoms 5y ago

The state of Australian politics is a complete and utter shambles. Every single Australian should be thoroughly embarrassed by this. In my opinion mandatory voting is up there among the very worst, most destructive forces any democracy has undergone.

doctor_eval 5y ago
The politics of half the Anglosphere is pretty much a dumpster fire relative to Australia, so it’s hard to accept your position. In terms of destructive forces in Australian politics, I think the lack of media diversity is far and away the greatest threat to our country - far ahead of requiring the governed to have a say in who governs them.
mecha_ghidorah 5y ago
Can you please expand on how mandatory voting has lead to harm? I'm genuinely not able to imagine how you can lay the blame for the current state of Australian politics on it

879r9p6292 5y ago

Can you really say electoral participation confers 'real democratic legitimacy' when it's coerced?