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Germany differentiates between "Schriftform" and "Textform". The former is "paper, hand signed" or "qualifizierte elektronische Signatur" (qualified electronic

by namibj 5y ago

Germany differentiates between "Schriftform" and "Textform". The former is "paper, hand signed" or "qualifizierte elektronische Signatur" (qualified electronic signature), the latter "basically SMS and up" (notably excluding voice, AFAIK even if recorded). This has (just searched for a link) been turned into EU law under the term "eIDAS Regulation" [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_electronic_signature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_electronic_signature

necovek 5y ago
Qualified electronic signatures are a bit stronger than "SMS and up": from your own Wikipedia link, "a qualified electronic signature is an advanced electronic signature with a qualified digital certificate that has been created by a qualified signature creation device (QSCD)". It mentions 3 requirements right after that sentence (like "data used to create the signature is under the sole control of the signatory"). As such, DocuSign is unlikely to be valid as a qualified electronic signature in Germany or other European countries. But in all of the contractual law ever present in the world, as long as you do not dispute that it's your signature, or there are witnesses to you agreeing to a contract (even verbal ones), a contract would hold as if signed by you.
- necovek 5y ago
  This page confirms it isn't: https://www.docusign.com/how-it-works/legality/global/germany https://www.docusign.com/how-it-works/legality/global/german... > ...the use of electronic signatures or requires that the “written form” be used (which requires use of a qualified electronic signature), then any non-qualified electronic signature may be used. As such, DocuSign is an "electronic signature", but not a qualified electronic signature. This seems to be defined directly in eIDAS, so it probably applies to most of EU countries, and countries on the path to joining the EU.
- detaro 5y ago
  You misread that: "SMS and up" is the description for Textform = the variant that doesn't require a qualified electronic signature.
  - necovek 5y ago
    Ah, right, upon more careful reading, that's indeed so: my apologies!
necovek 5y ago
> As such, DocuSign is unlikely to be valid as a qualified electronic signature in Germany or other European countries. I think this confirms my guess above: https://www.docusign.com/how-it-works/electronic-signature/digital-signature/digital-signature-faq https://www.docusign.com/how-it-works/electronic-signature/d... (But they are making it vague on purpose instead of just stating in plain words)

by namibj 5y ago

necovek 5y ago

Qualified electronic signatures are a bit stronger than "SMS and up": from your own Wikipedia link, "a qualified electronic signature is an advanced electronic signature with a qualified digital certificate that has been created by a qualified signature creation device (QSCD)". It mentions 3 requirements right after that sentence (like "data used to create the signature is under the sole control of the signatory"). As such, DocuSign is unlikely to be valid as a qualified electronic signature in Germany or other European countries. But in all of the contractual law ever present in the world, as long as you do not dispute that it's your signature, or there are witnesses to you agreeing to a contract (even verbal ones), a contract would hold as if signed by you.

necovek 5y ago
This page confirms it isn't: https://www.docusign.com/how-it-works/legality/global/germany https://www.docusign.com/how-it-works/legality/global/german... > ...the use of electronic signatures or requires that the “written form” be used (which requires use of a qualified electronic signature), then any non-qualified electronic signature may be used. As such, DocuSign is an "electronic signature", but not a qualified electronic signature. This seems to be defined directly in eIDAS, so it probably applies to most of EU countries, and countries on the path to joining the EU.
detaro 5y ago
You misread that: "SMS and up" is the description for Textform = the variant that doesn't require a qualified electronic signature.
- necovek 5y ago
  Ah, right, upon more careful reading, that's indeed so: my apologies!

necovek 5y ago

> As such, DocuSign is unlikely to be valid as a qualified electronic signature in Germany or other European countries. I think this confirms my guess above: https://www.docusign.com/how-it-works/electronic-signature/digital-signature/digital-signature-faq https://www.docusign.com/how-it-works/electronic-signature/d... (But they are making it vague on purpose instead of just stating in plain words)