5 ms·

There should be both. There should be wild free parts for grownups who can't easily be traumatized, manipulated or tricked and also fenced gardens for those vul

There should be both. There should be wild free parts for grownups who can't easily be traumatized, manipulated or tricked and also fenced gardens for those vulnerable (kids, grannies, religious etc whoever is easily trollable). Places where every non-techie goes nowadays (i.e. Facebook) should be censored and guarded strictly, the rest should be free and wild.

sneedenheimer 5y ago
Isn't Facebook already censored and guarded strictly? And you won't have wild free parts for grownups if you let the government legislate against "trolls" and "bigots" on the internet. Today they'll just force Facebook into removing "harmful" content but you are incredibly naive if you think they'll stop there.
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  They won't stop themselves. We have to invite them to police specific parts and stop them when they want to expand their control further. We generally like police to patrol the city and guard kindergartens etc but don't invite them to station in our bedrooms. Isn't Facebook already censored and guarded strictly? Not sufficiently apparently. There still are a lot of weirdos, bullshitters and political trolls there AFAIK (but I admit I didn't really check - I just read about that a lot, incl. here on HN). I.e. fact-checking should be enforced, whoever is caught on repeated intentional lying with purpose to manipulate audience should be banned.
devtul 5y ago
I think about this approach every two weeks, when I hear that somewhere in the world there's a new initiative to treat the internet like a kindergarten. Sure why not, but I would like to sign up for the wild west, the easily offended and gullible can live happily on the safe side, thanks.
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  Exactly. I used yo be a total Internet freedom proponent and that's what I want for myself but now as everybody (of whom the majority is mentally unprepared) is on Facebook I admit it makes no sense - Internet kindergartens have to be there for the people who need them (and most of these people just naturally go to places like Facebook and Instagram).
  - etherael 5y ago
    The problem with this is that the mass of clueless kindergarten attendants are fed a steady diet of complete nonsense by curated and cultivated media outlets pushing very specific self serving narratives, which these obedient clueless drones in massive hordes then go out into the world and behave politically and economically exactly as those who treated them like the wind-up toy soldiers they actually are intended. And the more defeaning the silence is when the idiotic ideas these people float about as plausible and desirable things, the more confident and less cautious that they are in support and pursuit of those things. As somebody who spent the last week reading Facebook post after post from these people specifically in Australia not just defending but promoting concentration camps, military round ups and forced medication, I cannot emphasise enough caution in the idea that they should just be left alone in their harmless walled gardens with their amusing but inconsequential fantasies, not subject to the trauma of critical inquiry by third parties.
    - SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
      Your first two paragraphs are spot on, your last one demonstrates clearly that Facebook posts are not a reliable source of information. There are no concentration camps, no military round ups, and no forced medication* in Australia. * There is no vaccine mandate per se, but some types of businesses face fines for admitting non-vaccinated people onto the premises. You might call this a de facto mandate, others have certainly made that point.
      - etherael 5y ago
        > There are no concentration camps, no military round ups Yes there are, not a troll, straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. https://youtu.be/vQok3GMMSAI https://youtu.be/vQok3GMMSAI > and no forced medication* in Australia. That part is true but I never said there were yet. I said clueless information walled gardens were constantly advocating for them with very little push back exactly because they're in walled gardens where that is the narrative they want pushed. > There is no vaccine mandate per se, but some types of businesses face fines for admitting non-vaccinated people onto the premises. You might call this a de facto mandate, others have certainly made that point. I do think it is to an extent. But there's definitely a gap between that and forcibly injecting people against their will, and that is what I was seeing many posts advocating for along with those military round ups and concentration camps that are already facts on the ground and are only being varnished with more PR friendly labels just like they were in every single deployment in history.
fallingknife 5y ago
Yes I'm sure those non-techies would happily agree that they need to be censored but we do not.
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  In the model I propose they are not forced to be censored. As soon as they feel like stepping out of the kindergarten they can do just that.
windows2020 5y ago
There already is both... they're little worlds called websites. Maybe we'll see people migrate back towards smaller forums in the future.

sneedenheimer 5y ago

Isn't Facebook already censored and guarded strictly? And you won't have wild free parts for grownups if you let the government legislate against "trolls" and "bigots" on the internet. Today they'll just force Facebook into removing "harmful" content but you are incredibly naive if you think they'll stop there.

qwerty456127 5y ago
They won't stop themselves. We have to invite them to police specific parts and stop them when they want to expand their control further. We generally like police to patrol the city and guard kindergartens etc but don't invite them to station in our bedrooms. Isn't Facebook already censored and guarded strictly? Not sufficiently apparently. There still are a lot of weirdos, bullshitters and political trolls there AFAIK (but I admit I didn't really check - I just read about that a lot, incl. here on HN). I.e. fact-checking should be enforced, whoever is caught on repeated intentional lying with purpose to manipulate audience should be banned.

devtul 5y ago

I think about this approach every two weeks, when I hear that somewhere in the world there's a new initiative to treat the internet like a kindergarten. Sure why not, but I would like to sign up for the wild west, the easily offended and gullible can live happily on the safe side, thanks.

qwerty456127 5y ago
Exactly. I used yo be a total Internet freedom proponent and that's what I want for myself but now as everybody (of whom the majority is mentally unprepared) is on Facebook I admit it makes no sense - Internet kindergartens have to be there for the people who need them (and most of these people just naturally go to places like Facebook and Instagram).
- etherael 5y ago
  The problem with this is that the mass of clueless kindergarten attendants are fed a steady diet of complete nonsense by curated and cultivated media outlets pushing very specific self serving narratives, which these obedient clueless drones in massive hordes then go out into the world and behave politically and economically exactly as those who treated them like the wind-up toy soldiers they actually are intended. And the more defeaning the silence is when the idiotic ideas these people float about as plausible and desirable things, the more confident and less cautious that they are in support and pursuit of those things. As somebody who spent the last week reading Facebook post after post from these people specifically in Australia not just defending but promoting concentration camps, military round ups and forced medication, I cannot emphasise enough caution in the idea that they should just be left alone in their harmless walled gardens with their amusing but inconsequential fantasies, not subject to the trauma of critical inquiry by third parties.
  - SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
    Your first two paragraphs are spot on, your last one demonstrates clearly that Facebook posts are not a reliable source of information. There are no concentration camps, no military round ups, and no forced medication* in Australia. * There is no vaccine mandate per se, but some types of businesses face fines for admitting non-vaccinated people onto the premises. You might call this a de facto mandate, others have certainly made that point.
    - etherael 5y ago
      > There are no concentration camps, no military round ups Yes there are, not a troll, straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. https://youtu.be/vQok3GMMSAI https://youtu.be/vQok3GMMSAI > and no forced medication* in Australia. That part is true but I never said there were yet. I said clueless information walled gardens were constantly advocating for them with very little push back exactly because they're in walled gardens where that is the narrative they want pushed. > There is no vaccine mandate per se, but some types of businesses face fines for admitting non-vaccinated people onto the premises. You might call this a de facto mandate, others have certainly made that point. I do think it is to an extent. But there's definitely a gap between that and forcibly injecting people against their will, and that is what I was seeing many posts advocating for along with those military round ups and concentration camps that are already facts on the ground and are only being varnished with more PR friendly labels just like they were in every single deployment in history.

fallingknife 5y ago

Yes I'm sure those non-techies would happily agree that they need to be censored but we do not.

qwerty456127 5y ago
In the model I propose they are not forced to be censored. As soon as they feel like stepping out of the kindergarten they can do just that.

windows2020 5y ago

There already is both... they're little worlds called websites. Maybe we'll see people migrate back towards smaller forums in the future.