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Communism Destroyed Russian Cooking

10 points by starkd 5y ago

eesmith 5y ago
And imperialism improved British cooking. And US expansionism destroyed Native American cooking. From this we conclude .... what, exactly? Did communism destroy Vietnamese cooking? A look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_cuisine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_cuisine suggests it did not. What about Chinese cuisine? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cuisine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cuisine again suggests otherwise. If not, why did communism cause a problem in Soviet culinary practices but not in Vietnam? And if not, can we really attribute the problem to "Communism"? To be sure, the starvation and re-education camps of both China and Vietnam must not be forgotten (nor the brutal treatment of Native Americans by US expansionism, nor British racist colonial authority). My question instead it, what's the point of the title? "The Soviet Union Destroyed Russian Cooking" would be both more correct and more accurate. As it is, it sounds like Reason's usual method of over-generalizing to dismiss anything which is not free-market libertarian.
- starkd 5y ago
  I think you are misreading the article. There are often profound unintended consequences to societies both culturally and economically. That have very lasting effects. This article delineates one of those consequences. I doubt the Soviets intended to destroy Russian cooking, but it did have a negative impact. Unintended consequences is a prominent theme communist governments refuse to acknowledge. Yet, there is no shortage of people, like yourself, cheering them on to try again. To put it mildly, they don't have a very good track record. They might do better if they first start acknowledging that basic fact, before they try to improve all of humanity.
  - eesmith 5y ago
    WTF!?! Why the hell do you think I want to "cheer them on to try again"!? I'm fine with the claim "the Soviets intended to destroy Russian cooking". I said so myself. I want to know how "Communism" destroyed Russian cooking but not Vietnamese or Chinese cooking.
    - starkd 5y ago
      Who the hell knows why. Communism understands nihilism a lot better than building societies. So, the effects are a more random.
      - eesmith 5y ago
        Then you agree that the title's association is pretty meaningless? And apologize for falsely claiming I'm cheering on communist governments?
        starkd 5y ago
        The harm communist regimes have had on culture is well documented. Whether its cooking or religion or whatever. I put the blame on the common ideology. Yes, I apoligize for claiming you were defending communism. But if you weren't, I think maybe you were just being overly pedantic then? The effect communism has had is pretty clear.
        eesmith 5y ago
        Which is why I pointed out the mass starvation and "re-education" camps of Vietnam and China! That wasn't to leave out the same horrors of the Soviet Era, but to highlight how blaming Communism as an ideology is not enough to explain why Russian food culture changed.

10 points by starkd 5y ago

And imperialism improved British cooking. And US expansionism destroyed Native American cooking. From this we conclude .... what, exactly? Did communism destroy Vietnamese cooking? A look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_cuisine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_cuisine suggests it did not. What about Chinese cuisine? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cuisine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cuisine again suggests otherwise. If not, why did communism cause a problem in Soviet culinary practices but not in Vietnam? And if not, can we really attribute the problem to "Communism"? To be sure, the starvation and re-education camps of both China and Vietnam must not be forgotten (nor the brutal treatment of Native Americans by US expansionism, nor British racist colonial authority). My question instead it, what's the point of the title? "The Soviet Union Destroyed Russian Cooking" would be both more correct and more accurate. As it is, it sounds like Reason's usual method of over-generalizing to dismiss anything which is not free-market libertarian.

starkd 5y ago
I think you are misreading the article. There are often profound unintended consequences to societies both culturally and economically. That have very lasting effects. This article delineates one of those consequences. I doubt the Soviets intended to destroy Russian cooking, but it did have a negative impact. Unintended consequences is a prominent theme communist governments refuse to acknowledge. Yet, there is no shortage of people, like yourself, cheering them on to try again. To put it mildly, they don't have a very good track record. They might do better if they first start acknowledging that basic fact, before they try to improve all of humanity.
- eesmith 5y ago
  WTF!?! Why the hell do you think I want to "cheer them on to try again"!? I'm fine with the claim "the Soviets intended to destroy Russian cooking". I said so myself. I want to know how "Communism" destroyed Russian cooking but not Vietnamese or Chinese cooking.
  - starkd 5y ago
    Who the hell knows why. Communism understands nihilism a lot better than building societies. So, the effects are a more random.
    - eesmith 5y ago
      Then you agree that the title's association is pretty meaningless? And apologize for falsely claiming I'm cheering on communist governments?
      - starkd 5y ago
        The harm communist regimes have had on culture is well documented. Whether its cooking or religion or whatever. I put the blame on the common ideology. Yes, I apoligize for claiming you were defending communism. But if you weren't, I think maybe you were just being overly pedantic then? The effect communism has had is pretty clear.
        eesmith 5y ago
        Which is why I pointed out the mass starvation and "re-education" camps of Vietnam and China! That wasn't to leave out the same horrors of the Soviet Era, but to highlight how blaming Communism as an ideology is not enough to explain why Russian food culture changed.