5 ms·

Who gives the best feedback?

77 points by johnsillings 5y ago

awinter-py 5y ago
I printed this out as someone who is perpetually in the 'almost starting' phase of a bunch of projects, I think A LOT about feedback, who to accept it from, how to take it. developing a thick skin and ignoring the bad stuff is crucial, but you can't be blind to information so you need to accept some. articles like this are really important. when I meet someone successful one of the questions I try to ask is 'how did advice and feedback shape your path'. same for management -- when someone comes in hot and tells you something about your leadership style, integrating that properly is a hard skill, and a large part of the job asking questions is key in both cases -- learn more about how to categorize the feedback, learn more about what information the person has that you don't + where they got it. this is non-confrontational + gets you what you need. never debate like with everything, empathy matters here, in both directions
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> People with exceptionally bad social skills who actually use your product > They’re the best. They don’t care about hurting your feelings and won’t sugarcoat when it comes to discussing their issues. They actually care about solving their problem and that’s why they’re speaking with you. I would have agreed with this one before spending some time in product management. The truth is that these "tough love" users are actually quite good at providing feedback about what they want you to work on, but it's a mistake to assume that they are representative of your customer base. It's even worse when it comes to tech products, where many of the most angry and vocal die-hard users have very unique wants that might not represent your typical customer at all. For example, if you dive into HN comments for a product you might hear a lot of complaints about the lack of an API for customizations, lack of a CLI interface, lack of a client for some specific Linux distribution with <0.1% market share, or the fact that the website doesn't work with JavaScript disabled. The people demanding these features might be very vocal and will insert their opinion into every discussion of the product. But if you allocate engineering time to solving these niche issues, you might discover that only a tiny fraction of your userbase actually cared about it in the first place. Even worse, you might discover that the people complaining still aren't happy because they thought up 3 additional complaints about the new features you rolled out and what it's missing for their specific use case. This is why product management (good product management) is much harder than it looks from the outside: You need to learn the art of weighing feedback and gauging true customer interest, including potential customers who haven't signed up yet. This means toning down the demands of vocal minorities while also de-sugaring some of the feedback from otherwise reserved commenters.
- hitekker 5y ago
  You're right about soliciting feature requests in niche tech forums. Everyone upvotes and agrees with each other that so-and-so must be done. Then when they're asked as individuals to put money down for what they asked for, they go silent. The iPhone 12 mini, Gaming on Linux, and other examples come to mind. Lots of empty words, no hard cash.
  - jareklupinski 5y ago
    hey, i own an iphone 12 mini; you didnt get one? srsly tho, its not an absolute cold cash move all the time, especially when the PM/Designer has some status and wants something for their portfolio at the expense of customer need also, happy customers dont hand out bonuses and salary bumps. bosses do...
    - Ntrails 5y ago
      > hey, i own an iphone 12 mini; you didnt get one? I got the SE as soon as it was out, was the form factor I'd been after so I bought it.
      - jareklupinski 5y ago
        ah nice, I wish i could have held onto my SE for life (water damaged), i would literally buy upgraded internals inside an iphone 4 body for the rest of my life if that were possible
  - dvtrn 5y ago
    Then when they're asked as individuals to put money down for what they asked for, they go silent. This handy trick works for managers too ;) I consider it a fork of the 'wally reflector'. Okay, I'll take my non-sequiturs elsewhere.
- jrumbut 5y ago
  Probably the best information those users can give you is why they still use your product if they hate so much about it. I think it's possible we've become so focused on being gracious about receiving negative feedback that positive feedback is where the underappreciated signal is hidden.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
gumby 5y ago
This is so true. Another way to think about this is “nobody will tell you to your face that your baby is ugly.” Too many products have been built because someone didn’t want to deliver bad news. Ive made this mistake myself. Having an MVP helps a lot.
zethus 5y ago
"The Mom Test" by Rob Fitzpatrick is a good follow-up read to this blog post. The author provides some examples and insight of _how_ to talk to some of these types of feedback-providers. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52283963-the-mom-test https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52283963-the-mom-test
Taylor_ 5y ago
Is there also a difference on how you collect the feedback. I imagine there must be a difference between face-to-face, phone, video call, email, chat? With different types of communication leading to different results (i.e people not wanting to hurt your feelings).

77 points by johnsillings 5y ago

I printed this out as someone who is perpetually in the 'almost starting' phase of a bunch of projects, I think A LOT about feedback, who to accept it from, how to take it. developing a thick skin and ignoring the bad stuff is crucial, but you can't be blind to information so you need to accept some. articles like this are really important. when I meet someone successful one of the questions I try to ask is 'how did advice and feedback shape your path'. same for management -- when someone comes in hot and tells you something about your leadership style, integrating that properly is a hard skill, and a large part of the job asking questions is key in both cases -- learn more about how to categorize the feedback, learn more about what information the person has that you don't + where they got it. this is non-confrontational + gets you what you need. never debate like with everything, empathy matters here, in both directions

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> People with exceptionally bad social skills who actually use your product > They’re the best. They don’t care about hurting your feelings and won’t sugarcoat when it comes to discussing their issues. They actually care about solving their problem and that’s why they’re speaking with you. I would have agreed with this one before spending some time in product management. The truth is that these "tough love" users are actually quite good at providing feedback about what they want you to work on, but it's a mistake to assume that they are representative of your customer base. It's even worse when it comes to tech products, where many of the most angry and vocal die-hard users have very unique wants that might not represent your typical customer at all. For example, if you dive into HN comments for a product you might hear a lot of complaints about the lack of an API for customizations, lack of a CLI interface, lack of a client for some specific Linux distribution with <0.1% market share, or the fact that the website doesn't work with JavaScript disabled. The people demanding these features might be very vocal and will insert their opinion into every discussion of the product. But if you allocate engineering time to solving these niche issues, you might discover that only a tiny fraction of your userbase actually cared about it in the first place. Even worse, you might discover that the people complaining still aren't happy because they thought up 3 additional complaints about the new features you rolled out and what it's missing for their specific use case. This is why product management (good product management) is much harder than it looks from the outside: You need to learn the art of weighing feedback and gauging true customer interest, including potential customers who haven't signed up yet. This means toning down the demands of vocal minorities while also de-sugaring some of the feedback from otherwise reserved commenters.

hitekker 5y ago
You're right about soliciting feature requests in niche tech forums. Everyone upvotes and agrees with each other that so-and-so must be done. Then when they're asked as individuals to put money down for what they asked for, they go silent. The iPhone 12 mini, Gaming on Linux, and other examples come to mind. Lots of empty words, no hard cash.
- jareklupinski 5y ago
  hey, i own an iphone 12 mini; you didnt get one? srsly tho, its not an absolute cold cash move all the time, especially when the PM/Designer has some status and wants something for their portfolio at the expense of customer need also, happy customers dont hand out bonuses and salary bumps. bosses do...
  - Ntrails 5y ago
    > hey, i own an iphone 12 mini; you didnt get one? I got the SE as soon as it was out, was the form factor I'd been after so I bought it.
    - jareklupinski 5y ago
      ah nice, I wish i could have held onto my SE for life (water damaged), i would literally buy upgraded internals inside an iphone 4 body for the rest of my life if that were possible
- dvtrn 5y ago
  Then when they're asked as individuals to put money down for what they asked for, they go silent. This handy trick works for managers too ;) I consider it a fork of the 'wally reflector'. Okay, I'll take my non-sequiturs elsewhere.
jrumbut 5y ago
Probably the best information those users can give you is why they still use your product if they hate so much about it. I think it's possible we've become so focused on being gracious about receiving negative feedback that positive feedback is where the underappreciated signal is hidden.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

gumby 5y ago

This is so true. Another way to think about this is “nobody will tell you to your face that your baby is ugly.” Too many products have been built because someone didn’t want to deliver bad news. Ive made this mistake myself. Having an MVP helps a lot.

zethus 5y ago

"The Mom Test" by Rob Fitzpatrick is a good follow-up read to this blog post. The author provides some examples and insight of _how_ to talk to some of these types of feedback-providers. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52283963-the-mom-test https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52283963-the-mom-test

Taylor_ 5y ago

Is there also a difference on how you collect the feedback. I imagine there must be a difference between face-to-face, phone, video call, email, chat? With different types of communication leading to different results (i.e people not wanting to hurt your feelings).