4 ms·

If you want to e-sign lease agreements, you don’t need any special software. You can just have the signee type their name in the signature space and email the d

by elil17 5y ago

If you want to e-sign lease agreements, you don’t need any special software. You can just have the signee type their name in the signature space and email the document back to you. The date of the email will be evidence of the timestamp, and the email records are commonly accepted in court. That’s just as legally binding as Docusign. The reason people use Docusign is to keep track of a large number of legal ageeements.

yellow_lead 5y ago
Right, you can even sign (drawn signature) a PDF with Acrobat or Foxit or Libre, return it over email, and it's binding.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 5y ago
  Which is why it’s infuriating when someone requires a “wet” signature - AFAIK it’s not more binding than above, so why are you forcing me to print something out, sign it and scan it?
  - yellow_lead 5y ago
    I also wonder how they'll know. It's funny - almost like "if you cant tell it wasn't reasonable to ask in the first place."
  - supertrope 5y ago
    Inertia. Lack of knowledge. This problem feeds off itself. If both parties agree to sign electronically it’s valid. In a population of luddites adoption remains low because they’re worried other luddites or cautious people don’t accept electronic documents. One silver lining to Covid is that businesses have been forced to adapt by moving up their digital workflow deployments or go out of business.
beervirus 5y ago
Although be aware that the specifics of what is acceptable vary from state to state. To say nothing of non-US jurisdictions.
- elil17 5y ago
  That is absolutely not true. Email is valid for signatures in all common law jurisdictions (i.e. English speaking jurisdictions except Louisiana) and Louisiana. It’s a fundamental principle of common law that agreements are contracts even if you don’t follow some specific procedure (such as pen and paper signatures or Docusign) to agree to them. In the US, federal law (UCC) deviates from common law jurisprudence by requiring that some contracts be written and signed, but it says that signing is “using any symbol executed or adopted with present intention to adopt or accept a writing” (i.e., anything is a signature if you intend it to be one) and that the symbol may be produced “manually or by means of a device or machine” (e.g. a computer). In the U.S., Louisiana does not follow common law (they are based on Roman/ pre-Napoleonic French law) but they explicitly recognized electronic signatures in 2006. So, no, you don’t have to be aware of specifics that vary state to state. You can use email/PDFs/anything else to sign a document anywhere in the English speaking world.
yojo 5y ago
This is all true, but even that small amount of friction can be a nuisance, especially if the signer is not particularly technically savvy. I use HelloSign’s free tier and am happy to not have to explain to the leasee how to annotate a PDF.
smsm42 5y ago
TBH Docusign also has more polished UI - like allowing to specify where to sign and knowing that all places necessary were signed, etc. - and keeping track of documents I've signed has value even for me as a user. So it's nice when a company gives the signing party a more polished solution. But yeah, I've signed many documents by just typing into PDF too. For something like lease, it's completely fine.
catillac 5y ago
This comment has “Dropbox won’t be successful because anyone can use rsync” vibes.
- elil17 5y ago
  No. I understand the value of Docusign. But OP asked for a free solution, and that solution is email. If OP asked for an open source alternative to Dropbox, rsync would be an appropriate answer AFAIk
mindwave 5y ago
I work at a competing esign and would say that while this is true, this will not fly for customers. They want the impression of legality, even if typing your name and email time stamp would suffice. The hand drawn signature, the Envelope ID, etc all create the impression of a Legally Binding Agreement. That impression matters a lot, especially to the Signer

by elil17 5y ago

yellow_lead 5y ago

Right, you can even sign (drawn signature) a PDF with Acrobat or Foxit or Libre, return it over email, and it's binding.

SOLAR_FIELDS 5y ago
Which is why it’s infuriating when someone requires a “wet” signature - AFAIK it’s not more binding than above, so why are you forcing me to print something out, sign it and scan it?
- yellow_lead 5y ago
  I also wonder how they'll know. It's funny - almost like "if you cant tell it wasn't reasonable to ask in the first place."
- supertrope 5y ago
  Inertia. Lack of knowledge. This problem feeds off itself. If both parties agree to sign electronically it’s valid. In a population of luddites adoption remains low because they’re worried other luddites or cautious people don’t accept electronic documents. One silver lining to Covid is that businesses have been forced to adapt by moving up their digital workflow deployments or go out of business.

beervirus 5y ago

Although be aware that the specifics of what is acceptable vary from state to state. To say nothing of non-US jurisdictions.

elil17 5y ago
That is absolutely not true. Email is valid for signatures in all common law jurisdictions (i.e. English speaking jurisdictions except Louisiana) and Louisiana. It’s a fundamental principle of common law that agreements are contracts even if you don’t follow some specific procedure (such as pen and paper signatures or Docusign) to agree to them. In the US, federal law (UCC) deviates from common law jurisprudence by requiring that some contracts be written and signed, but it says that signing is “using any symbol executed or adopted with present intention to adopt or accept a writing” (i.e., anything is a signature if you intend it to be one) and that the symbol may be produced “manually or by means of a device or machine” (e.g. a computer). In the U.S., Louisiana does not follow common law (they are based on Roman/ pre-Napoleonic French law) but they explicitly recognized electronic signatures in 2006. So, no, you don’t have to be aware of specifics that vary state to state. You can use email/PDFs/anything else to sign a document anywhere in the English speaking world.

yojo 5y ago

This is all true, but even that small amount of friction can be a nuisance, especially if the signer is not particularly technically savvy. I use HelloSign’s free tier and am happy to not have to explain to the leasee how to annotate a PDF.

smsm42 5y ago

TBH Docusign also has more polished UI - like allowing to specify where to sign and knowing that all places necessary were signed, etc. - and keeping track of documents I've signed has value even for me as a user. So it's nice when a company gives the signing party a more polished solution. But yeah, I've signed many documents by just typing into PDF too. For something like lease, it's completely fine.

catillac 5y ago

This comment has “Dropbox won’t be successful because anyone can use rsync” vibes.

elil17 5y ago
No. I understand the value of Docusign. But OP asked for a free solution, and that solution is email. If OP asked for an open source alternative to Dropbox, rsync would be an appropriate answer AFAIk

mindwave 5y ago

I work at a competing esign and would say that while this is true, this will not fly for customers. They want the impression of legality, even if typing your name and email time stamp would suffice. The hand drawn signature, the Envelope ID, etc all create the impression of a Legally Binding Agreement. That impression matters a lot, especially to the Signer