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I don’t know how to square this review with my own experience of owning a Y for a year. The autopilot is nearly perfect, noticeably better than a human driver i

I don’t know how to square this review with my own experience of owning a Y for a year. The autopilot is nearly perfect, noticeably better than a human driver in stop and go traffic on the highway. Given the history of downright dishonest reviews by old school car people with an irrational hatred of Tesla, this review really should have been accompanied by video evidence of phantom braking.

muglug 5y ago
> this review really should have been accompanied by video evidence of phantom braking There's a video review in the article which includes many examples of phantom breaking.
- georgewfraser 5y ago
  Doh, how did I miss that? Now I understand: the phantom breaking is all on non-highways. I only use autopilot on highways and highway-like roads.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
csa 5y ago
Agreed. I got my Model Y in June. Yes, sometimes it has phantom braking. For reference, on a 9 hour drive to LV from my house, it happened maybe 5 times, and they were all fixed with a mild press of the accelerator. If this is a deal breaker for you, don’t get a Tesla. If the failed promise of FSD is a deal breaker for you, don’t get a Tesla (I don’t have it and don’t want it). Other than the minor issues (for me) of occasional phantom braking and broken FSD promises, the car has been amazing. Build quality was perfect, it has run incredibly well, and it is simply a joy to drive. My friend ordered his a week after I took him on a ride, and he doesn’t think he will ever own a car that’s not a Tesla (I disagree with him, because competition will be a thing at some point, but he’s directionally correct). Many of my other friends have made their deposit and are just waiting for their number to come up. Rather than read reviews, talk to people who own the model you are planning to purchase (same model and similar “model year”). Then take the car on a test drive. You will probably know at that point if it’s for you or not.
- btbuilder 5y ago
  Maybe I am old-school but 5 times in a 9 hour drive seems unacceptably high for a potentially dangerous event. Is it incorrect to believe the car brakes at full braking force? Is there some predictor of the car making this error that makes it easier to handle?
  - csa 5y ago
    > Is it incorrect to believe the car brakes at full braking force? For me, that is incorrect. I would not consider it dangerous at all. For me, it was more like lifting off the accelerator for a split second if I were in full control. One time that my car did brake aggressively was when an 18-wheeler was gradually easing into my lane (not on Vegas drive). It was probably a slight over-reaction, but probably one that would have saved my life if the truck had veered into my lane (likely dodging something or sleeping truck driver). I have heard of people getting the aggressive braking phantom brake experience, but I haven’t. It’s also trivially easy to address just by pressing the accelerator — the driver is supposed to be paying attention. Fwiw, this is a deal breaker for a Tesla for one friend of mine. She has motion sickness that is frighteningly easy to trigger (autopilot or even just me driving, and I’m not an aggressive driver). She’s a bit of a motion sickness snowflake, and she readily admits as much. Predictions seem to be the following: 1. Driving into the shadows of 18-wheelers. 2. Driving into the shadows of overpasses. 3. Driving on roads that are reflective and have weird patterns on them. I don’t know how to describe this. My buddy and I consistently experience this a time or three going up the mountain towards Tehachapi between Bakersfield and Barstow. My guess is that this problem is or should be solvable by machine learning (same phantom braking at same time of day at the same place with driver override). My biggest complaint about autopilot is that it aggressively turns the brights on at night. I’m not sure if it is outside of legal or reasonable use of brights, but I just find it easier to take full control — I try to be a friendly driver. One last thing that I didn’t mention in my original post — using autopilot in stop-and-go traffic is an absolute dream. It takes a ton of hassle and stress out of that type of driving.
    - unclebucknasty 5y ago
tyingq 5y ago
This part seems like fair criticism to me: "looking at the Autopilot status and navigation prompts means having to gaze well down toward the bottom of that display. That means taking your eyes a long way from the road. A simple gauge cluster or heads-up display would solve the issue, but none are available, a curious omission on a car costing this much." Hard to comment on the phantom braking without experiencing it myself though.
ericd 5y ago
The switch to vision-only seems to be the cause - I've seen reports of people with radars installed that are on the autopilot beta program which got them the vision-only autopilot deployment, and they reported that they suddenly started getting a bunch of phantom braking. Reverting back to the version with radar for those with it installed reportedly fixed it. So people who've bought recent no-radar Teslas are having a different experience than those with older models.

muglug 5y ago

> this review really should have been accompanied by video evidence of phantom braking There's a video review in the article which includes many examples of phantom breaking.

georgewfraser 5y ago
Doh, how did I miss that? Now I understand: the phantom breaking is all on non-highways. I only use autopilot on highways and highway-like roads.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

csa 5y ago

Agreed. I got my Model Y in June. Yes, sometimes it has phantom braking. For reference, on a 9 hour drive to LV from my house, it happened maybe 5 times, and they were all fixed with a mild press of the accelerator. If this is a deal breaker for you, don’t get a Tesla. If the failed promise of FSD is a deal breaker for you, don’t get a Tesla (I don’t have it and don’t want it). Other than the minor issues (for me) of occasional phantom braking and broken FSD promises, the car has been amazing. Build quality was perfect, it has run incredibly well, and it is simply a joy to drive. My friend ordered his a week after I took him on a ride, and he doesn’t think he will ever own a car that’s not a Tesla (I disagree with him, because competition will be a thing at some point, but he’s directionally correct). Many of my other friends have made their deposit and are just waiting for their number to come up. Rather than read reviews, talk to people who own the model you are planning to purchase (same model and similar “model year”). Then take the car on a test drive. You will probably know at that point if it’s for you or not.

btbuilder 5y ago
Maybe I am old-school but 5 times in a 9 hour drive seems unacceptably high for a potentially dangerous event. Is it incorrect to believe the car brakes at full braking force? Is there some predictor of the car making this error that makes it easier to handle?
- csa 5y ago
  > Is it incorrect to believe the car brakes at full braking force? For me, that is incorrect. I would not consider it dangerous at all. For me, it was more like lifting off the accelerator for a split second if I were in full control. One time that my car did brake aggressively was when an 18-wheeler was gradually easing into my lane (not on Vegas drive). It was probably a slight over-reaction, but probably one that would have saved my life if the truck had veered into my lane (likely dodging something or sleeping truck driver). I have heard of people getting the aggressive braking phantom brake experience, but I haven’t. It’s also trivially easy to address just by pressing the accelerator — the driver is supposed to be paying attention. Fwiw, this is a deal breaker for a Tesla for one friend of mine. She has motion sickness that is frighteningly easy to trigger (autopilot or even just me driving, and I’m not an aggressive driver). She’s a bit of a motion sickness snowflake, and she readily admits as much. Predictions seem to be the following: 1. Driving into the shadows of 18-wheelers. 2. Driving into the shadows of overpasses. 3. Driving on roads that are reflective and have weird patterns on them. I don’t know how to describe this. My buddy and I consistently experience this a time or three going up the mountain towards Tehachapi between Bakersfield and Barstow. My guess is that this problem is or should be solvable by machine learning (same phantom braking at same time of day at the same place with driver override). My biggest complaint about autopilot is that it aggressively turns the brights on at night. I’m not sure if it is outside of legal or reasonable use of brights, but I just find it easier to take full control — I try to be a friendly driver. One last thing that I didn’t mention in my original post — using autopilot in stop-and-go traffic is an absolute dream. It takes a ton of hassle and stress out of that type of driving.
  - unclebucknasty 5y ago

tyingq 5y ago

This part seems like fair criticism to me: "looking at the Autopilot status and navigation prompts means having to gaze well down toward the bottom of that display. That means taking your eyes a long way from the road. A simple gauge cluster or heads-up display would solve the issue, but none are available, a curious omission on a car costing this much." Hard to comment on the phantom braking without experiencing it myself though.

ericd 5y ago

The switch to vision-only seems to be the cause - I've seen reports of people with radars installed that are on the autopilot beta program which got them the vision-only autopilot deployment, and they reported that they suddenly started getting a bunch of phantom braking. Reverting back to the version with radar for those with it installed reportedly fixed it. So people who've bought recent no-radar Teslas are having a different experience than those with older models.