9 ms·

You're correct. NFTs are unenforceable certificates of ownership for publicly available digital assets (at least as they are used currently). It's possible to m

You're correct. NFTs are unenforceable certificates of ownership for publicly available digital assets (at least as they are used currently). It's possible to make NFTs that connect to real world activities like tickets for concerts and whatnot but no one has done that yet or at least I haven't heard of it yet.

quietthrow 5y ago
Curious how nfts are any different from qr codes in some ways.
- poetically 5y ago
  They're not. The difference is that if the QR code was public and associated with some specific public key then it would be exactly like an NFT. The blockchain enthusiasts are confused about the economic and cryptographic aspects, they're orthogonal concerns.
andy800 5y ago
Dirtybird Flight Club is a new (Oct 2021) NFT project, backed by the Dirtybird record label, that has held multiple free DJ events exclusively for NFT holders. So yes they connect to real world activities, and yes they are enforceable.
- poetically 5y ago
  What exactly is being enforced?
  - andy800 5y ago
    Don't own an NFT, can't attend the show.
    - Traster 5y ago
      How does the NFT ensure you can attend the show? Surely the bouncer can just tell you you're not getting in, or let in the DJs friends?
      - andy800 5y ago
        How does a bank ensure you can withdraw your money? Surely the teller can just raid your account and give your cash to his/her friends. I don't think anything can 100% prevent illegal activity, but eventually someone who abuses their power will get caught and be removed.
        gus_massa 5y ago
        The teller has a camera over his/her shoulder, and [at least here] to extract the money you must go with your credit card and type a PIN, so the computer can verify it's you. Banks hate competition, so they ensure the teller is not stealing money from the client.
        andy800 5y ago
        Bouncers are watched by cameras too. And if they don't allow in legitimate ticket holders (unless incapacitated, abusive, etc), they get removed from the job. The owner of the nightclub can't risk his business being sued, or fined, or losing business from event promoters who receive multiple complaints of denied entry at that specific venue. The credit card/PIN combo sounds great until someone walks into the bank and says their wallet was stolen, or even, that you died last week and presents a forged death certificate. The point is every system has a failure point if someone is determined enough. NFTs can prove digital presence in a specific wallet, they can't actually prove who owns the wallet. No crypto asset can do that, which is why many people have gotten tricked into giving up their private key or recovery phrase.
        gus_massa 5y ago
        Here in Argentina, if you go to the bank and claim your wallet was stolen, they will not give you the money. IIRC you must call the bank, and they will send a week later a replacement of your card, and another day a new PIN written in paper that you must change in a ATM, so the thief must intercept both. Anyway, the PIN for the ATM is different of the PIN for the teller, so it's not so easy. And the teller will ask also for the national ID card, that is also difficult to forge. In case of death, the bank ask for some papers signed by a judge that says you are the official heir, and they will check in the national death registry. No way they will believe in a piece of paper. I don't claim it's impossible, but in both cases there is a lot of paperwork to ensure it's difficult.
okareaman 5y ago
Maybe the simplest way to explain NFTs is to compare them to casino chips: "if you have a casino chip and that casino goes out of business, your chip will most likely be worthless" Say you take 10 grand to Bob's Casino in Las Vegas, buy chips and turn them into 100 grand at blackjack. You put the chips in your bag and go home to sleep because you're pretty drunk. Bob's Casino burns down overnight and Bob announces it he now bankrupt and going out of business. Your 100 grand in chips are now worthless. The top answer for "are casino chips legal tender?" on Google is Because casino chips are not legal tender, they are not legally transferable. That doesn't mean some people don't try to exchange them for cash or chips at rival casinos. Although the practice was once popular in Las Vegas, the government stepped in to prevent money laundering and counterfeiting. The U.S. dollar is the global reserve currency because it is backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. Government and people have confidence the U.S. will last. Bob's Casino chips are back by Bob. NFT's are backed by who?
- andy800 5y ago
  Who is the Mona Lisa "backed by"?
- poetically 5y ago
  Comparison to casinos makes sense. Currently cryptocurrencies are mostly used for speculation (basically gambling) and money laundering. There is no real economic activity happening on blockchains.
  - Osiris 5y ago
    Define "real economic behavior". I don't see it as any different than buying and selling stock, unless you also consider that to not be real economic behavior. There's also loans and interest earning activities.
    - poetically 5y ago
      Speculation is not real economic activity. There are no actual goods produced and exchanged in the process.
0x0000000 5y ago
The NFL is doing this https://www.ticketmaster.com/promo/wpbgpv https://www.ticketmaster.com/promo/wpbgpv
- poetically 5y ago
  I can't access the site. I get the following message: You don't have permission to access /promo/wpbgpv on this server.
  - 0x0000000 5y ago
    Weird, here's a screenshot to the text on the page (they disable copy/paste so I couldn't just include it originally) https://imgur.com/a/8HZtpyp https://imgur.com/a/8HZtpyp
    - poetically 5y ago
      Are people buying them?
      - 0x0000000 5y ago
        People are buying tickets to the event, the NFT is not (currently?) sold standalone, but I guess you could say people are buying them? It's a neat idea, but I'm not sure what the point of block chain does for anyone here. Am I ever going to sell my commemorative virtual NFL ticket? To who? Everyone who was at the game got one. No one who didn't attend the game would want it.
ilrwbwrkhv 5y ago
Because at that point you can simply issue a ticket.

quietthrow 5y ago

Curious how nfts are any different from qr codes in some ways.

poetically 5y ago
They're not. The difference is that if the QR code was public and associated with some specific public key then it would be exactly like an NFT. The blockchain enthusiasts are confused about the economic and cryptographic aspects, they're orthogonal concerns.

andy800 5y ago

Dirtybird Flight Club is a new (Oct 2021) NFT project, backed by the Dirtybird record label, that has held multiple free DJ events exclusively for NFT holders. So yes they connect to real world activities, and yes they are enforceable.

poetically 5y ago
What exactly is being enforced?
- andy800 5y ago
  Don't own an NFT, can't attend the show.
  - Traster 5y ago
    How does the NFT ensure you can attend the show? Surely the bouncer can just tell you you're not getting in, or let in the DJs friends?
    - andy800 5y ago
      How does a bank ensure you can withdraw your money? Surely the teller can just raid your account and give your cash to his/her friends. I don't think anything can 100% prevent illegal activity, but eventually someone who abuses their power will get caught and be removed.
      - gus_massa 5y ago
        The teller has a camera over his/her shoulder, and [at least here] to extract the money you must go with your credit card and type a PIN, so the computer can verify it's you. Banks hate competition, so they ensure the teller is not stealing money from the client.
        andy800 5y ago
        Bouncers are watched by cameras too. And if they don't allow in legitimate ticket holders (unless incapacitated, abusive, etc), they get removed from the job. The owner of the nightclub can't risk his business being sued, or fined, or losing business from event promoters who receive multiple complaints of denied entry at that specific venue. The credit card/PIN combo sounds great until someone walks into the bank and says their wallet was stolen, or even, that you died last week and presents a forged death certificate. The point is every system has a failure point if someone is determined enough. NFTs can prove digital presence in a specific wallet, they can't actually prove who owns the wallet. No crypto asset can do that, which is why many people have gotten tricked into giving up their private key or recovery phrase.
        gus_massa 5y ago
        Here in Argentina, if you go to the bank and claim your wallet was stolen, they will not give you the money. IIRC you must call the bank, and they will send a week later a replacement of your card, and another day a new PIN written in paper that you must change in a ATM, so the thief must intercept both. Anyway, the PIN for the ATM is different of the PIN for the teller, so it's not so easy. And the teller will ask also for the national ID card, that is also difficult to forge. In case of death, the bank ask for some papers signed by a judge that says you are the official heir, and they will check in the national death registry. No way they will believe in a piece of paper. I don't claim it's impossible, but in both cases there is a lot of paperwork to ensure it's difficult.

okareaman 5y ago

Maybe the simplest way to explain NFTs is to compare them to casino chips: "if you have a casino chip and that casino goes out of business, your chip will most likely be worthless" Say you take 10 grand to Bob's Casino in Las Vegas, buy chips and turn them into 100 grand at blackjack. You put the chips in your bag and go home to sleep because you're pretty drunk. Bob's Casino burns down overnight and Bob announces it he now bankrupt and going out of business. Your 100 grand in chips are now worthless. The top answer for "are casino chips legal tender?" on Google is Because casino chips are not legal tender, they are not legally transferable. That doesn't mean some people don't try to exchange them for cash or chips at rival casinos. Although the practice was once popular in Las Vegas, the government stepped in to prevent money laundering and counterfeiting. The U.S. dollar is the global reserve currency because it is backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. Government and people have confidence the U.S. will last. Bob's Casino chips are back by Bob. NFT's are backed by who?

andy800 5y ago
Who is the Mona Lisa "backed by"?
poetically 5y ago
Comparison to casinos makes sense. Currently cryptocurrencies are mostly used for speculation (basically gambling) and money laundering. There is no real economic activity happening on blockchains.
- Osiris 5y ago
  Define "real economic behavior". I don't see it as any different than buying and selling stock, unless you also consider that to not be real economic behavior. There's also loans and interest earning activities.
  - poetically 5y ago
    Speculation is not real economic activity. There are no actual goods produced and exchanged in the process.

0x0000000 5y ago

The NFL is doing this https://www.ticketmaster.com/promo/wpbgpv https://www.ticketmaster.com/promo/wpbgpv

poetically 5y ago
I can't access the site. I get the following message: You don't have permission to access /promo/wpbgpv on this server.
- 0x0000000 5y ago
  Weird, here's a screenshot to the text on the page (they disable copy/paste so I couldn't just include it originally) https://imgur.com/a/8HZtpyp https://imgur.com/a/8HZtpyp
  - poetically 5y ago
    Are people buying them?
    - 0x0000000 5y ago
      People are buying tickets to the event, the NFT is not (currently?) sold standalone, but I guess you could say people are buying them? It's a neat idea, but I'm not sure what the point of block chain does for anyone here. Am I ever going to sell my commemorative virtual NFL ticket? To who? Everyone who was at the game got one. No one who didn't attend the game would want it.

ilrwbwrkhv 5y ago

Because at that point you can simply issue a ticket.