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The reality is far more prosaic than many people seem to believe. Starlink has been reported to be taking "pre-orders" for the service at $99 in India; without

The reality is far more prosaic than many people seem to believe. Starlink has been reported to be taking "pre-orders" for the service at $99 in India; without having a license to operate [1][2]. This might seem like peanuts to the HN crowd, and the move to do pre-orders is completely in line with the "move fast" ethos of SV startups, but $99 is a non-trivial amount of money in rural India. IMO the Government is right to at least warn people that they might not get the service promised, even if they do end up getting their money back. Also, in case Starlink decides to take the dynamic and innovative step of just keeping the money, it is unclear what recourse these prospective customers will have. ---------------------------------------- [1] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/telecom/telecom-news/telecom-ngo-alleges-musks-starlink-cheating-consumers-in-india-by-accepting-pre-order-deposits-without-a-licence/articleshow/86678167.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/telecom/teleco... [2] https://www.pcmag.com/news/india-spacex-needs-a-license-to-offer-starlink-pre-orders https://www.pcmag.com/news/india-spacex-needs-a-license-to-o...

mcguire 5y ago
If we all obeyed a dictum to "avoid selling things until you can provide those things", Silicon Valley would dry up overnight.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- JulianMorrison 5y ago
  I fail to see a downside.
- Ballu 5y ago
  There is a difference in "avoid selling things until you can provide those things" and "avoid selling things until you are allowed to sell things".
  - phendrenad2 5y ago
    What's the difference?
    - nine_k 5y ago
      You may have the stuff you've invested into production of, and potential buyers willing to give you the money. But if your stuff is illegal to sell, tough luck.
      - phendrenad2 5y ago
        So the real difference is between collecting preorders for something you MAY be able to fulfill in the near term vs something that you may be blocked from selling for an indeterminate amount of time. Starlink will eventually be legal in India, but it could take decades. In this sense, there's no real difference between "avoid selling things until you can provide those things" and "avoid selling things until you are allowed to sell things". It's just that a normal person has a cutoff point where it becomes an unreasonable wait.
        Ballu 5y ago
        By default, all satellite operators are blocked in India. I haven't checked in last year or 2, you cant even use Garmin emergency devices which are becoming common in west outdoors. To use the satellite phones, you need to apply to the federal gov (called Central gov in India) and you can rent the phone from ministry. Atleast, thats the process for tourist or who are entering India from other countries. There are some changes happened in last 1-2 years, few satellite companies got the lic to provide services, but I am sure all the devices and services are highly regulated.
- butMyside 5y ago
  Since it’s just math in a machine and we have the math written down all over, what would be losing of long term value to the human species? I have made a lot of money thanks to SV, but it’s not what puts food on my table; people where I live do. I don’t live near SV. Billions of us don’t give af about SV. It’s all hype and our daily lives will look pretty much the same without it.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  I don’t really see why that’s true, unless you consider companies’ pitches to investors to be “selling” something. Silicon Valley isn’t really known for the business model of taking money for preorders.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
dilawar 5y ago
Given the current political climate, iI won't be surprised if they will get the license as soon as they cosy up the A company. Whatapp got license to do financial transactions (UPI) just after they invested in Ambani's Reliance.
- desi_ninja 5y ago
  That sounds like a conspiracy
  - seibelj 5y ago
    This is standard stuff in all countries. If you need something political done and you have given (“invested”) a lot of money to something a politician cares about, it tends to grease the wheels. Happens in every government on earth.
    - btilly 5y ago
      It happens different amounts in different countries. And the difference matters. Government corruption is a major drag on the economy. And therefore less corrupt countries experience compounding growth that helps them become rich countries.
  - shlurpy 5y ago
    Corruption is a type of conspiring yes. Your point?
  - tata71 5y ago
    Conspiracy, or conspiracy theory? Sick of seeing "educated" communities conflate the two.
- mohanmcgeek 5y ago
  Conspiracy theory infact: The investment was more than a year ago and whatsapp still doesn't have a full license to operate..
btilly 5y ago
I will bet dollars to pesos that if Starlink fails to provide the service, the cause will be government corruption. Therefore the government is warning people of the potential for them to get hurt because the government failed to get the shakedown that they're hoping for. Excuse me if I fail to see said government as being in the right. Now you may think I'm just being cynical. But according to https://www.transparency.org/en/countries/india https://www.transparency.org/en/countries/india nearly 90% OF THEIR OWN CITIZENS think that government corruption is a big problem in India. I just think that the general public knows what they are talking about here.
- mohanmcgeek 5y ago
  Is the perception of corruption the same as incidence of corruption? If anything this only shows that this country takes corruption way more seriously than "developed" countries. This shady ISP from a known market manipulator should have a license before they started getting pre-orders. We don't want another FSD pre-order snake oil.. Do we?
  - leobg 5y ago
    Dude. So the stock went 20x and you missed it. Get over it. Regarding the license, the “snake oil market manipulator” said something about that. When asked what corrupt governments could do if they didn’t want their citizens to have access to the unfiltered internet he said “they can shake their fists at the sky”.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - mohanmcgeek 5y ago
      Because the ability to scramble signals is only something white countries have? Not to mention this country has the ability to destroy these satellites if it came to it.
bserge 5y ago
Fuck are they gonna do, blanket jam the signal? If I'm desperate enough to buy Internet service from a satellite provider, I couldn't give a fuck about the gov's license. Best they can do is confiscate the dish in customs.
postmeta 5y ago
Did you see this? https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/01/spacexs-starlink-forms-india-subsidiary-aims-to-deploy-200000-active-terminals-by-2022/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/01/spacexs-starlink-forms-ind...

mcguire 5y ago

If we all obeyed a dictum to "avoid selling things until you can provide those things", Silicon Valley would dry up overnight.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
JulianMorrison 5y ago
I fail to see a downside.
Ballu 5y ago
There is a difference in "avoid selling things until you can provide those things" and "avoid selling things until you are allowed to sell things".
- phendrenad2 5y ago
  What's the difference?
  - nine_k 5y ago
    You may have the stuff you've invested into production of, and potential buyers willing to give you the money. But if your stuff is illegal to sell, tough luck.
    - phendrenad2 5y ago
      So the real difference is between collecting preorders for something you MAY be able to fulfill in the near term vs something that you may be blocked from selling for an indeterminate amount of time. Starlink will eventually be legal in India, but it could take decades. In this sense, there's no real difference between "avoid selling things until you can provide those things" and "avoid selling things until you are allowed to sell things". It's just that a normal person has a cutoff point where it becomes an unreasonable wait.
      - Ballu 5y ago
        By default, all satellite operators are blocked in India. I haven't checked in last year or 2, you cant even use Garmin emergency devices which are becoming common in west outdoors. To use the satellite phones, you need to apply to the federal gov (called Central gov in India) and you can rent the phone from ministry. Atleast, thats the process for tourist or who are entering India from other countries. There are some changes happened in last 1-2 years, few satellite companies got the lic to provide services, but I am sure all the devices and services are highly regulated.
butMyside 5y ago
Since it’s just math in a machine and we have the math written down all over, what would be losing of long term value to the human species? I have made a lot of money thanks to SV, but it’s not what puts food on my table; people where I live do. I don’t live near SV. Billions of us don’t give af about SV. It’s all hype and our daily lives will look pretty much the same without it.
tshaddox 5y ago
I don’t really see why that’s true, unless you consider companies’ pitches to investors to be “selling” something. Silicon Valley isn’t really known for the business model of taking money for preorders.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

dilawar 5y ago

Given the current political climate, iI won't be surprised if they will get the license as soon as they cosy up the A company. Whatapp got license to do financial transactions (UPI) just after they invested in Ambani's Reliance.

desi_ninja 5y ago
That sounds like a conspiracy
- seibelj 5y ago
  This is standard stuff in all countries. If you need something political done and you have given (“invested”) a lot of money to something a politician cares about, it tends to grease the wheels. Happens in every government on earth.
  - btilly 5y ago
    It happens different amounts in different countries. And the difference matters. Government corruption is a major drag on the economy. And therefore less corrupt countries experience compounding growth that helps them become rich countries.
- shlurpy 5y ago
  Corruption is a type of conspiring yes. Your point?
- tata71 5y ago
  Conspiracy, or conspiracy theory? Sick of seeing "educated" communities conflate the two.
mohanmcgeek 5y ago
Conspiracy theory infact: The investment was more than a year ago and whatsapp still doesn't have a full license to operate..

btilly 5y ago

I will bet dollars to pesos that if Starlink fails to provide the service, the cause will be government corruption. Therefore the government is warning people of the potential for them to get hurt because the government failed to get the shakedown that they're hoping for. Excuse me if I fail to see said government as being in the right. Now you may think I'm just being cynical. But according to https://www.transparency.org/en/countries/india https://www.transparency.org/en/countries/india nearly 90% OF THEIR OWN CITIZENS think that government corruption is a big problem in India. I just think that the general public knows what they are talking about here.

mohanmcgeek 5y ago
Is the perception of corruption the same as incidence of corruption? If anything this only shows that this country takes corruption way more seriously than "developed" countries. This shady ISP from a known market manipulator should have a license before they started getting pre-orders. We don't want another FSD pre-order snake oil.. Do we?
- leobg 5y ago
  Dude. So the stock went 20x and you missed it. Get over it. Regarding the license, the “snake oil market manipulator” said something about that. When asked what corrupt governments could do if they didn’t want their citizens to have access to the unfiltered internet he said “they can shake their fists at the sky”.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - mohanmcgeek 5y ago
    Because the ability to scramble signals is only something white countries have? Not to mention this country has the ability to destroy these satellites if it came to it.

bserge 5y ago

Fuck are they gonna do, blanket jam the signal? If I'm desperate enough to buy Internet service from a satellite provider, I couldn't give a fuck about the gov's license. Best they can do is confiscate the dish in customs.

postmeta 5y ago

Did you see this? https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/01/spacexs-starlink-forms-india-subsidiary-aims-to-deploy-200000-active-terminals-by-2022/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/01/spacexs-starlink-forms-ind...