4 ms·

For a mid sized helicopter like this, you can expect around 40 gallon per hour and a speed of about 100 mph. So I don't think this is a solution to the RV fuel

For a mid sized helicopter like this, you can expect around 40 gallon per hour and a speed of about 100 mph. So I don't think this is a solution to the RV fuel consumption problem.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
Jet-A1 is a lot cheaper though than unleaded petrol or car diesel at least here in Europe. Especially because it's untaxed. Still it works out much more expensive for the chopper obviously. Those really guzzle it. And this one looks so old that might be piston based in which case it would probably run on avgas which is a lot more expensive than car fuel.
- p_l 5y ago
  Tax depends on who is buying, usually. IIRC in Poland private plane owners who are not buying through airclub pay tax on fuel, but airclubs don't, which results in every non-road-legal 4 stroke engine on airfield running on AVGAS-100LL ;)
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Seriously?? I thought Avgas is still much more expensive than regular unleaded fuel. It sure was when I flew but I'm not sure whether we were paying taxes. We bought it through the airclub but it was not a commercial club. So we probably did pay it. But we paid something like 3,50 euro per liter and this was when regular petrol prices were 1,50 or so. I was told it's so expensive because the special production: They add dehumidifying agents against condensation etc. I heard a lot of clubs are going for turbodiesel conversions now but the problem is that they have to be completely replaced every X years, they can't just do an engine overhaul like they can on the old Lycoming avgas engines.
    - p_l 5y ago
      Sounds like you were paying AVGAS price + taxes, at least given typical petrol prices in EU. At least in Poland, the situation is that if both are without taxes, then AVGAS is more expensive than car petrol. But taxes add enough on top that taxed car petrol is more expensive than untaxed avgas. This meant that non-airclub planes had significant amount of car petrol conversions done, but aircraft that could be fueled through Polish Aero Club didn't bother. At the airfield I learnt to fly gliders, even the utility car (used among other things for dragging winch wire back to start) was fueled with avgas-100ll, except we also modded it with LPG system that was fueled by normal kitchen gas bottle. The hand-pushed grass mower also ran on avgas :D only the winch and old ursus tractor used diesel due to engine type involved.
- t0mas88 5y ago
  It's only untaxed for commercial operators, not for your own helicopter or airplane.
  - riedel 5y ago
    Fun fact is that EU introduced a directive that any state could tax it in 2003 but no one did. So much for the green new deal...
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      Well it's not really green if they do it. It will have to be done worldwide. Otherwise all the operators will fuel up to the brim at tax havens and be much heavier (and thus burn more fuel which is bad for the environment). And skimp on fueling at expensive locations and as such introduce dangerous situations (like RyanAir was already caught doing!). I think this was also the reasoning behind the no-tax thing. They could make it mandatory for intra-europe flights for example but then the airlines will just introduce little side-hops to places like Dubai and Northern Africa for the sake of it. There just is no good solution unless the world agrees on taxation everywhere. That would have been a good point to raise at Glasgow but it was once again all form over function.
      - riedel 5y ago
        You could first raise the tax to just the point where detours do not make sense. It's the same with petrol and here local governments tax. IMHO the effect is minor. The solution would be to collect the tax like an import tariff even if you have fueled up elsewhere. Fuel usage should be well documented. There will be ways. I guess this is however not covered by the EU directive i guess. But that shows the problem of a green new deal. New agricultural subventions can also be used in a green way. Nobody does really...
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Ahh ok I didn't know this. I never flew anything with Jet-A1. Only Avgas.

For a mid sized helicopter like this, you can expect around 40 gallon per hour and a speed of about 100 mph. So I don't think this is a solution to the RV fuel consumption problem.

GekkePrutser 5y ago

Jet-A1 is a lot cheaper though than unleaded petrol or car diesel at least here in Europe. Especially because it's untaxed. Still it works out much more expensive for the chopper obviously. Those really guzzle it. And this one looks so old that might be piston based in which case it would probably run on avgas which is a lot more expensive than car fuel.

p_l 5y ago
Tax depends on who is buying, usually. IIRC in Poland private plane owners who are not buying through airclub pay tax on fuel, but airclubs don't, which results in every non-road-legal 4 stroke engine on airfield running on AVGAS-100LL ;)
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Seriously?? I thought Avgas is still much more expensive than regular unleaded fuel. It sure was when I flew but I'm not sure whether we were paying taxes. We bought it through the airclub but it was not a commercial club. So we probably did pay it. But we paid something like 3,50 euro per liter and this was when regular petrol prices were 1,50 or so. I was told it's so expensive because the special production: They add dehumidifying agents against condensation etc. I heard a lot of clubs are going for turbodiesel conversions now but the problem is that they have to be completely replaced every X years, they can't just do an engine overhaul like they can on the old Lycoming avgas engines.
  - p_l 5y ago
    Sounds like you were paying AVGAS price + taxes, at least given typical petrol prices in EU. At least in Poland, the situation is that if both are without taxes, then AVGAS is more expensive than car petrol. But taxes add enough on top that taxed car petrol is more expensive than untaxed avgas. This meant that non-airclub planes had significant amount of car petrol conversions done, but aircraft that could be fueled through Polish Aero Club didn't bother. At the airfield I learnt to fly gliders, even the utility car (used among other things for dragging winch wire back to start) was fueled with avgas-100ll, except we also modded it with LPG system that was fueled by normal kitchen gas bottle. The hand-pushed grass mower also ran on avgas :D only the winch and old ursus tractor used diesel due to engine type involved.
t0mas88 5y ago
It's only untaxed for commercial operators, not for your own helicopter or airplane.
- riedel 5y ago
  Fun fact is that EU introduced a directive that any state could tax it in 2003 but no one did. So much for the green new deal...
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Well it's not really green if they do it. It will have to be done worldwide. Otherwise all the operators will fuel up to the brim at tax havens and be much heavier (and thus burn more fuel which is bad for the environment). And skimp on fueling at expensive locations and as such introduce dangerous situations (like RyanAir was already caught doing!). I think this was also the reasoning behind the no-tax thing. They could make it mandatory for intra-europe flights for example but then the airlines will just introduce little side-hops to places like Dubai and Northern Africa for the sake of it. There just is no good solution unless the world agrees on taxation everywhere. That would have been a good point to raise at Glasgow but it was once again all form over function.
    - riedel 5y ago
      You could first raise the tax to just the point where detours do not make sense. It's the same with petrol and here local governments tax. IMHO the effect is minor. The solution would be to collect the tax like an import tariff even if you have fueled up elsewhere. Fuel usage should be well documented. There will be ways. I guess this is however not covered by the EU directive i guess. But that shows the problem of a green new deal. New agricultural subventions can also be used in a green way. Nobody does really...
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Ahh ok I didn't know this. I never flew anything with Jet-A1. Only Avgas.