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> In particular the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) has been lobbying to convert the Messok Dja, a particularly biodiverse area of rainforest in the Republic of Congo

> In particular the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) has been lobbying to convert the Messok Dja, a particularly biodiverse area of rainforest in the Republic of Congo, in a National Park, devoid of human presence. This aggressive act of clearance is rooted in the idea that a ‘wilderness’ area should not contain any people, thus rendering the original inhabitants of the forests as intruders, invaders and despoilers of ‘Nature’. There are other examples of this sort of "ecofascism", namely the "Half Earth" proposal wherein half the Earth's landmass should be dedicated to human-free "nature". Of course, no one will willingly give up their home, so this is tantamount to ethnically cleansing those regions--Africa and the Global South--that are geopolitically weak so that the wealthy Western nations can maintain their decadent quality of life.

thaumasiotes 5y ago
> the "Half Earth" proposal wherein half the Earth's landmass should be dedicated to human-free "nature". Of course, no one will willingly give up their home, so this is tantamount to ethnically cleansing those regions--Africa and the Global South--that are geopolitically weak so that the wealthy Western nations can maintain their decadent quality of life. Not quite. Western quality of life can't be improved by banning the exploitation of natural resources in Africa. Rather, what's proposed is to ethnically cleanse the reserved regions so that Western nations can advance an ideological goal that lowers their own quality of life.
- dillondoyle 5y ago
  Why can't our lives/the world be improved by banning the exploitation of natural resources in Africa? i'm constantly reading news of horrible spills from corruption and lack or regulation in the region. Plus all the carbon that contributes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANssSLjSXN0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANssSLjSXN0 https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/nigerias-aiteo-reports-extremely-high-order-oil-spill-well-2021-11-10/ https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/nigerias-aiteo-reports-...
  - bjelkeman-again 5y ago
    Maybe we start by banning harmful exploitation where we are first, not somewhere else?
    - DFHippie 5y ago
      We're trying to do both at the same time. And there's no reason not to do both at the same time. a) We are all pissing in the same bed, and b) if we truly believe the Mbuti and Twa are people just like we are and, ipso facto, deserve the same protections, then we must fight for both. We can't carve out an "exploit pygmies" exception and be consistent.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > Why can't our lives/the world be improved by banning the exploitation of natural resources in Africa? > i'm constantly reading news of horrible spills from corruption and lack or regulation in the region. We don't mine or drill for resources for the purpose of spilling them into the nearby forest. We extract resources so that we can use them to improve our quality of life. Stop extracting them, and quality of life will necessarily drop.
    - dillondoyle 5y ago
      I disagree with that premise. I get it's hard to transition and that poor countries do gain money from exploitation. But almost always, almost all the money goes to the few while the local communities are poisoned. often times, like in the sources I provided, traditional industry/food production is decimated. So first point is quality of life for the actual locals is often reduced, sometimes greatly. Corporations and developed nations have increased our quality of life at the expense of others for centuries. Second, once we scale up renewables we won't need to extract nearly as much carbon fuel from the ground. We NEED to stop extracting almost all of it so we can IMPROVE quality of life for everyone.
netizen-936824 5y ago
There are peoples who manage to live in harmony with nature, but westerners tend to view these societies as "undeveloped" or "barbaric" which is absolutely absurd. We should be learning from them
- pphysch 5y ago
  I agree. But America is by definition, the exceptional nation, the "indispensable nation", the peak of human society and values. Until this mentality changes, we won't be learning from anyone.

thaumasiotes 5y ago

> the "Half Earth" proposal wherein half the Earth's landmass should be dedicated to human-free "nature". Of course, no one will willingly give up their home, so this is tantamount to ethnically cleansing those regions--Africa and the Global South--that are geopolitically weak so that the wealthy Western nations can maintain their decadent quality of life. Not quite. Western quality of life can't be improved by banning the exploitation of natural resources in Africa. Rather, what's proposed is to ethnically cleanse the reserved regions so that Western nations can advance an ideological goal that lowers their own quality of life.

dillondoyle 5y ago
Why can't our lives/the world be improved by banning the exploitation of natural resources in Africa? i'm constantly reading news of horrible spills from corruption and lack or regulation in the region. Plus all the carbon that contributes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANssSLjSXN0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANssSLjSXN0 https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/nigerias-aiteo-reports-extremely-high-order-oil-spill-well-2021-11-10/ https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/nigerias-aiteo-reports-...
- bjelkeman-again 5y ago
  Maybe we start by banning harmful exploitation where we are first, not somewhere else?
  - DFHippie 5y ago
    We're trying to do both at the same time. And there's no reason not to do both at the same time. a) We are all pissing in the same bed, and b) if we truly believe the Mbuti and Twa are people just like we are and, ipso facto, deserve the same protections, then we must fight for both. We can't carve out an "exploit pygmies" exception and be consistent.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > Why can't our lives/the world be improved by banning the exploitation of natural resources in Africa? > i'm constantly reading news of horrible spills from corruption and lack or regulation in the region. We don't mine or drill for resources for the purpose of spilling them into the nearby forest. We extract resources so that we can use them to improve our quality of life. Stop extracting them, and quality of life will necessarily drop.
  - dillondoyle 5y ago
    I disagree with that premise. I get it's hard to transition and that poor countries do gain money from exploitation. But almost always, almost all the money goes to the few while the local communities are poisoned. often times, like in the sources I provided, traditional industry/food production is decimated. So first point is quality of life for the actual locals is often reduced, sometimes greatly. Corporations and developed nations have increased our quality of life at the expense of others for centuries. Second, once we scale up renewables we won't need to extract nearly as much carbon fuel from the ground. We NEED to stop extracting almost all of it so we can IMPROVE quality of life for everyone.

netizen-936824 5y ago

There are peoples who manage to live in harmony with nature, but westerners tend to view these societies as "undeveloped" or "barbaric" which is absolutely absurd. We should be learning from them

pphysch 5y ago
I agree. But America is by definition, the exceptional nation, the "indispensable nation", the peak of human society and values. Until this mentality changes, we won't be learning from anyone.