9 ms·

It will take 100 days to tailor a vaccine to a new variant

24 points by pps 5y ago

Giorgi 5y ago
It is already hard to make people vaccinate with 1 year vaccine, imagine how many will die refusing 100 day vaccine. Natural selection in progress.
- tamaharbor 5y ago
  Sounds like you should be happy with the covid purge of the fat, old, and infirm. That is natural selection also.
  - Giorgi 5y ago
    So many antivaxxers in the forums that thinks of itself as "hacker" lol.
pps 5y ago
https://archive.md/PLmOk https://archive.md/PLmOk
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
foolzcrow 5y ago
What is the "Great Reset"¿?
GDC7 5y ago
Covid is just a symptom of bigger underlying epidemic: It's an epidemic of depression and anxiety ravaging through society, which doesn't spare anybody. I became interested in Sweden's approach of not doing anything at all , per the John Hopkins University website COVID deaths in Sweden are 15,000. 15k in 2 years, now how many months/weeks were trimmed off those people's lives? Note that I said months/weeks, not years. Back in the 1990s or the 2000s we'd have not even noticed that COVID even existed, not to mention the 1970s and 1980s. How many COVIDs came and went through the human history without us noticing? Diseases and virus didn't change. We did. We are much more depressed and anxious. The end all be all seems to be existing, not living. To avoid any downside risk in order to stay around. If you plan your life with the goal of staying around, pretty soon you would not want to stay around any longer.
- icedchai 5y ago
  Why do you think we wouldn't have noticed it in the 90's and 2000's? When hospitals fill up, people are definitely going to notice. There were flu outbreaks in the 60's and 70's and people noticed. When comparing "different approaches" you need to look at many factors: population density, environment (average temperature), living conditions (like multi-generational families living together.) Countries are not directly comparable for this reason.
  - GDC7 5y ago
    > There were flu outbreaks in the 60's and 70's and people noticed No, they didn't. The population back then wasn't as depressed and anxious as today's population. They didn't extrapolate figures and trends and charts. They were not bombarded by news on 5 different screen devices. They'd notice when 5,6,7 or even 10 people they knew, and in the same age/health cohort as them would become incapacitated for more than 4 weeks, but in order to really notice it the same amount of people would have to be dying from the disease. How many people you know became incapacitated for more than 4 weeks because of COVID? 2 years into it how many died?
    - icedchai 5y ago
      I suspect neither of us were around then, so we can't really say, on a personal level, whether we would've noticed the 1968 flu pandemic. But the fact is millions of people died, and millions more got sick. Television and news papers were obviously around then, so people would've been talking about it. We are definitely more connected today, but to claim it "would not have been noticed" is an exaggeration. As for Covid, I personally know at least 5 people who got sick, 1 was out of work for 4 weeks, though none died. How about you?
      - GDC7 5y ago
        > whether we would've noticed the 1968 flu pandemic What do your parents tell you about that year? Students protests Vietnam War Woodstock Moon landing Drugs African Americans finally getting their voices heard. Nobody ever mentions the 1968 flu pandemic, given how things are 50 years from now we'd still be talking about COVID and fearing its #100,000 variant. > As for Covid, I personally know at least 5 people who got sick, 1 was out of work for 4 weeks, though none died. How about you? 1 got sick, recovered in 8 days. Considering the median individual has a circle of 200 people they know. It's 1/200 for me and 1/200 for you.
sterlind 5y ago
Is original antigenic sin due to prior vaccination or natural infection a concern for developing a new vaccine for this variant? Or perhaps the B.1.1.529 spike is so different that the original antibodies won't bind to it, even ineffectively? Or is there a way to design the new vaccine explicitly so that antibodies produced by prior strains can't bind the new antigens?
- didibus 5y ago
  From what I understand, there's no way to predict the pros and cons of the original antigenic sin. You will be biased against the strain you first receive, either as a vaccine or by catching the virus itself. What we don't know is which of these strains 20 years from now will make a resurgence. When that happens, you will be lucky if it's the strain closest to the first strain you caught or received a vaccine for, and unlucky if it isn't. Finally, I understand that vaccines for specific strains still work, but they won't work as well for mutations of their strains and might not get you immunity for as long.
gladinovax 5y ago
Is this good news or bad news?
Factorium 5y ago
Endless variants, endless boosters, endless profits. No wonder natural immunity is being suppressed. Having broad and long-lasting antibody and T-cell immunity is bad for profits and continuing this state of affairs.
- thecleaner 5y ago
  > No wonder natural immunity is being suppressed. Having broad and long-lasting antibody and T-cell immunity is bad for profits and continuing this state of affairs. What's this based on ? Is there some R-value or Mortality ratio at which natural immunity is better ? Besides vaccines are cheap, nowehere expensive enough to put a dent in people's pockets.
- cinntaile 5y ago
  If someone could make a vaccine that worked forever they would.
- joshuaissac 5y ago
  > No wonder natural immunity is being suppressed. What does this mean? Who or what is suppressing natural immunity? SARS-CoV-2? Some country's government? Some company?
  - Mountain_Skies 5y ago
    The US government continues to refuse to recognize naturally acquired immunity as valid. You can lose your job if you've recovered from COVID19 but do not get the vaccine. There's no reasonable excuse for doing this.
    - downrightmike 5y ago
      BECUASE IT ISN'T VALID More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-i...
noja 5y ago
If it's needed: if the new variant is very infectious and very mild, maybe we won't need it.
ifonlyugnu 5y ago
How long to test it for safe human use, though?

24 points by pps 5y ago

It is already hard to make people vaccinate with 1 year vaccine, imagine how many will die refusing 100 day vaccine. Natural selection in progress.

tamaharbor 5y ago
Sounds like you should be happy with the covid purge of the fat, old, and infirm. That is natural selection also.
- Giorgi 5y ago
  So many antivaxxers in the forums that thinks of itself as "hacker" lol.

pps 5y ago

https://archive.md/PLmOk https://archive.md/PLmOk

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

foolzcrow 5y ago

What is the "Great Reset"¿?

GDC7 5y ago

Covid is just a symptom of bigger underlying epidemic: It's an epidemic of depression and anxiety ravaging through society, which doesn't spare anybody. I became interested in Sweden's approach of not doing anything at all , per the John Hopkins University website COVID deaths in Sweden are 15,000. 15k in 2 years, now how many months/weeks were trimmed off those people's lives? Note that I said months/weeks, not years. Back in the 1990s or the 2000s we'd have not even noticed that COVID even existed, not to mention the 1970s and 1980s. How many COVIDs came and went through the human history without us noticing? Diseases and virus didn't change. We did. We are much more depressed and anxious. The end all be all seems to be existing, not living. To avoid any downside risk in order to stay around. If you plan your life with the goal of staying around, pretty soon you would not want to stay around any longer.

icedchai 5y ago
Why do you think we wouldn't have noticed it in the 90's and 2000's? When hospitals fill up, people are definitely going to notice. There were flu outbreaks in the 60's and 70's and people noticed. When comparing "different approaches" you need to look at many factors: population density, environment (average temperature), living conditions (like multi-generational families living together.) Countries are not directly comparable for this reason.
- GDC7 5y ago
  > There were flu outbreaks in the 60's and 70's and people noticed No, they didn't. The population back then wasn't as depressed and anxious as today's population. They didn't extrapolate figures and trends and charts. They were not bombarded by news on 5 different screen devices. They'd notice when 5,6,7 or even 10 people they knew, and in the same age/health cohort as them would become incapacitated for more than 4 weeks, but in order to really notice it the same amount of people would have to be dying from the disease. How many people you know became incapacitated for more than 4 weeks because of COVID? 2 years into it how many died?
  - icedchai 5y ago
    I suspect neither of us were around then, so we can't really say, on a personal level, whether we would've noticed the 1968 flu pandemic. But the fact is millions of people died, and millions more got sick. Television and news papers were obviously around then, so people would've been talking about it. We are definitely more connected today, but to claim it "would not have been noticed" is an exaggeration. As for Covid, I personally know at least 5 people who got sick, 1 was out of work for 4 weeks, though none died. How about you?
    - GDC7 5y ago
      > whether we would've noticed the 1968 flu pandemic What do your parents tell you about that year? Students protests Vietnam War Woodstock Moon landing Drugs African Americans finally getting their voices heard. Nobody ever mentions the 1968 flu pandemic, given how things are 50 years from now we'd still be talking about COVID and fearing its #100,000 variant. > As for Covid, I personally know at least 5 people who got sick, 1 was out of work for 4 weeks, though none died. How about you? 1 got sick, recovered in 8 days. Considering the median individual has a circle of 200 people they know. It's 1/200 for me and 1/200 for you.

sterlind 5y ago

Is original antigenic sin due to prior vaccination or natural infection a concern for developing a new vaccine for this variant? Or perhaps the B.1.1.529 spike is so different that the original antibodies won't bind to it, even ineffectively? Or is there a way to design the new vaccine explicitly so that antibodies produced by prior strains can't bind the new antigens?

didibus 5y ago
From what I understand, there's no way to predict the pros and cons of the original antigenic sin. You will be biased against the strain you first receive, either as a vaccine or by catching the virus itself. What we don't know is which of these strains 20 years from now will make a resurgence. When that happens, you will be lucky if it's the strain closest to the first strain you caught or received a vaccine for, and unlucky if it isn't. Finally, I understand that vaccines for specific strains still work, but they won't work as well for mutations of their strains and might not get you immunity for as long.

gladinovax 5y ago

Is this good news or bad news?

Factorium 5y ago

Endless variants, endless boosters, endless profits. No wonder natural immunity is being suppressed. Having broad and long-lasting antibody and T-cell immunity is bad for profits and continuing this state of affairs.

thecleaner 5y ago
> No wonder natural immunity is being suppressed. Having broad and long-lasting antibody and T-cell immunity is bad for profits and continuing this state of affairs. What's this based on ? Is there some R-value or Mortality ratio at which natural immunity is better ? Besides vaccines are cheap, nowehere expensive enough to put a dent in people's pockets.
cinntaile 5y ago
If someone could make a vaccine that worked forever they would.
joshuaissac 5y ago
> No wonder natural immunity is being suppressed. What does this mean? Who or what is suppressing natural immunity? SARS-CoV-2? Some country's government? Some company?
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  The US government continues to refuse to recognize naturally acquired immunity as valid. You can lose your job if you've recovered from COVID19 but do not get the vaccine. There's no reasonable excuse for doing this.
  - downrightmike 5y ago
    BECUASE IT ISN'T VALID More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-i...

noja 5y ago

If it's needed: if the new variant is very infectious and very mild, maybe we won't need it.

ifonlyugnu 5y ago

How long to test it for safe human use, though?