5 ms·

I’m not sure that time is passed. I was in college only ten years ago, and my English professor’s key insight to punctuation is that it’s to define framing and

I’m not sure that time is passed. I was in college only ten years ago, and my English professor’s key insight to punctuation is that it’s to define framing and tempo for your sentences. That the sequence you listed is the pause count — similar to different empty spaces in music. Punctuation is just the negative space to frame your thoughts! And perhaps a bit of tonality.

minimilian 5y ago
That's nice to hear: but do you often see the colon used that way?
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  Colon isn't a type of pause; at least, I only ever use it to introduce lists. I don't use it for timing or tonality. This discussion makes it painfully clear to me that I over-punctuate. I mean, I knew I leant more towards elaborate sentence-construction than is fashionable; I've never liked txt-speak, and my thumbs are too fat and flabby for operating miniature virtual keyboards. I try to write literate emails. That is also unfashionable, apparently, but I think it's considerate to the reader to use the expressive power of the language. In fact emails now seem to mostly be an alternative channel for sending txts. I think this is because of mobile apps that present the same UI for txts and emails. So I send a carefully-considered email, with paragraphs and all that, and I get back a reply of the form "Yes! <emoticon> <emoticon>". On semi-colons, I use them to append a clause with sentence structure (roughly subject, main verb, object) to the main part of a sentence, while keeping the two clauses together as a single "thought".
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - mdp2021 5y ago
    > Colon isn't a type of pause It also is a type of vocal intention. Are you acquainted with John Cleese playing the "Hungarian gentleman with phrase book" in the Monty Python sketch? «I will not buy this record [mounting pause, then release] it is scratched». The first part is preliminary, incomplete, it requires the second, expressed as a release after the mounting premise: the sentence is pronounced as having a colon (I cannot check the exact sample right now - that is how I remember it). You can imagine the difference if it were pronounced as a dash, as a more emotionally neutral interpretation of the sentence, not stressing the implications of "the record being scratched", could bring. With colon you make the first part an incomplete premise that depends on the second part to finally gain meaning or informational value or completeness, reaching to conclusions; with dash with the second part you provide the detail that enrich the content of the first part. As a vocal intention, the musicality of the syllables would change (e.g., in «it is scratched», high-high-low vs. low-low-high), and the pause would become more of a mid-air jump suspension. (Unfortunately I do not have other examples to provide on the spot). There can be correspondence between natural vocal intentions and punctuation - as is understandable, since punctuation very probably mimics the communicational relations implied in the acting of speech, and both are a consequence of the organization of thought.
    - denton-scratch 5y ago
      > the sentence is pronounced as having a colon It sounds as if you are saying that /colon/ is a pause, because in your Cleese reference, he pronounces a /colon/. If that's what you meant, then are you not begging the question? You assume that his pause was a /colon/, and conclude that /colon/ means a pause.
      - mdp2021 5y ago
        No. I have precisely stated that «It [relation between sentences] also is a type of vocal intention». This was stated on the basis that if you listen to a normal, decent speaker, you can see that the musicality in language can follow semantics, precisely different relations of sentences including modalities. Different relations are implied in different rhythms and melodies. You sing colons, dashes etc. as you speak. There is no assumption: it is an obstension. There is no conclusion: it remains an obstension. That I mentioned of Cleese's acting, is an example. I fail to see how you could read that pseudo-logic in that post. Do not use that poor pattern as a universal key: it is not.
- bopbeepboop 5y ago
  I use a colon to denote scale routinely, such as: in places I might have used other punctuation, but for the scale of the sentence in some other regard; or where there’s some typographical feature — such as bulleted lists. I would say I see it for that kind of use semi-routinely in long form posts.

minimilian 5y ago

That's nice to hear: but do you often see the colon used that way?

denton-scratch 5y ago
Colon isn't a type of pause; at least, I only ever use it to introduce lists. I don't use it for timing or tonality. This discussion makes it painfully clear to me that I over-punctuate. I mean, I knew I leant more towards elaborate sentence-construction than is fashionable; I've never liked txt-speak, and my thumbs are too fat and flabby for operating miniature virtual keyboards. I try to write literate emails. That is also unfashionable, apparently, but I think it's considerate to the reader to use the expressive power of the language. In fact emails now seem to mostly be an alternative channel for sending txts. I think this is because of mobile apps that present the same UI for txts and emails. So I send a carefully-considered email, with paragraphs and all that, and I get back a reply of the form "Yes! <emoticon> <emoticon>". On semi-colons, I use them to append a clause with sentence structure (roughly subject, main verb, object) to the main part of a sentence, while keeping the two clauses together as a single "thought".
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mdp2021 5y ago
  > Colon isn't a type of pause It also is a type of vocal intention. Are you acquainted with John Cleese playing the "Hungarian gentleman with phrase book" in the Monty Python sketch? «I will not buy this record [mounting pause, then release] it is scratched». The first part is preliminary, incomplete, it requires the second, expressed as a release after the mounting premise: the sentence is pronounced as having a colon (I cannot check the exact sample right now - that is how I remember it). You can imagine the difference if it were pronounced as a dash, as a more emotionally neutral interpretation of the sentence, not stressing the implications of "the record being scratched", could bring. With colon you make the first part an incomplete premise that depends on the second part to finally gain meaning or informational value or completeness, reaching to conclusions; with dash with the second part you provide the detail that enrich the content of the first part. As a vocal intention, the musicality of the syllables would change (e.g., in «it is scratched», high-high-low vs. low-low-high), and the pause would become more of a mid-air jump suspension. (Unfortunately I do not have other examples to provide on the spot). There can be correspondence between natural vocal intentions and punctuation - as is understandable, since punctuation very probably mimics the communicational relations implied in the acting of speech, and both are a consequence of the organization of thought.
  - denton-scratch 5y ago
    > the sentence is pronounced as having a colon It sounds as if you are saying that /colon/ is a pause, because in your Cleese reference, he pronounces a /colon/. If that's what you meant, then are you not begging the question? You assume that his pause was a /colon/, and conclude that /colon/ means a pause.
    - mdp2021 5y ago
      No. I have precisely stated that «It [relation between sentences] also is a type of vocal intention». This was stated on the basis that if you listen to a normal, decent speaker, you can see that the musicality in language can follow semantics, precisely different relations of sentences including modalities. Different relations are implied in different rhythms and melodies. You sing colons, dashes etc. as you speak. There is no assumption: it is an obstension. There is no conclusion: it remains an obstension. That I mentioned of Cleese's acting, is an example. I fail to see how you could read that pseudo-logic in that post. Do not use that poor pattern as a universal key: it is not.
bopbeepboop 5y ago
I use a colon to denote scale routinely, such as: in places I might have used other punctuation, but for the scale of the sentence in some other regard; or where there’s some typographical feature — such as bulleted lists. I would say I see it for that kind of use semi-routinely in long form posts.