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Well, if it’s really only among the unvaccinated - let them live with their decision. If I made the choice to not get it, and this is happening with it spreadi

Well, if it’s really only among the unvaccinated - let them live with their decision. If I made the choice to not get it, and this is happening with it spreading everywhere, I am continuously choosing the risk over getting the vaccine. Everyone else who has the vaccine shouldn’t be affected by my choice.

Dunedan 5y ago
Everybody else is affected as well, as unvaccinated people fill up ICUs which aren't available for non-COVID related cases anymore.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  Fair enough, but what are you going to do? Round them up in camps and forcibly inject them at this point? If the hospitals need to set limits to ensure balanced distribution of resources - the unvaccinated should be alerted and then the “hospital rationing” begins.
  - throwaway2077 5y ago
    >Round them up in camps and forcibly inject them at this point? this is already happening, and it is cheered on by the same usual suspects with blue checkmarks who denounced the people who said this is going to happen a year ago as right-wing conspiracy theorists.
  - xijingpooh 5y ago
    Hike up their medical insurance bills?
  - mikhailt 5y ago
    > Fair enough, but what are you going to do? Isolate them away from the population. We've already started to mandate vaccination for work in many places in US, mask mandates, etc. If the area gets hot enough, then we lock down. We've been doing it already. We can't force anyone to take the vaccine but we don't have to accept them. Why do you think there has been so many protests in US and other countries because of the said mask/vaccine mandates? Everyone's action has consequences, choosing not to get vaccinated does not mean they should be free from any consequences; their consequences are the isolation policies. > If the hospitals need to set limits to ensure balanced distribution of resources - the unvaccinated should be alerted and then the “hospital rationing” begins. They already have and not only that, they're losing a lot of hospital staff as well. A lot of hospitals have stopped or postponed surgeries, dealing with long lines of people in the ERs waiting a long time. Remember, hospitals have the duty to save everyone, they should never be in the situation where they should start to deny help to everyone coming into ER. The whole point of the original lockdowns was to "flatten the curve" where the hospitals can serve everyone as they come in.
  - detaro 5y ago
    > Fair enough, but what are you going to do? Round them up in camps and forcibly inject them at this point? Given that up until very recently there was quite little in way of actual restrictions on unvaccinated in Germany, this is really just a false dichotomy.
detaro 5y ago
> if it’s really only among the unvaccinated Where do you get that from? The article certainly doesn't say that. (And even if it were, the follow-up effects like load on the medical system do impact everyone, so unless you opt-out of that too your decision affects everyone)
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  The title of the article says it’s mostly the unvaccinated.
  - detaro 5y ago
    "mainly driven by" and "only among" is really not the same thing.
mikhailt 5y ago
It is not. The article clearly stated right away in the abstract section: > While the major- ity (about 65%) of the German population were fully vaccinated, incidence started growing exponentially in October 2021 with about 41% of recorded new cases aged twelve or above being symptomatic breakthrough infections, presumably also contributing to the dynamics. Breakthrough infections means infections after the vaccinations. Vaccinations is not a cure nor a prevention, it helps tune the body to fight better against the virus. Vaccinated folks can still get sick with COVID, they just have a much lower risk of dying but they can still have long covid symptoms. Second, this article is not talking about people getting infected, it is talking about how this virus spreads more by unvaccinated people over vaccinated folks. Your choice has an impact on the evolution of the virus by getting infected or allowing it to spread among more hosts. The more hosts infected, the faster the rate of mutation with greater success of spreading and severity or mortality of the disease. Where did you think the Delta variant came from? It wouldn't have evolved on its own if there weren't enough sick folks. By allowing more mutations, it can in fact evolve to the point that our current vaccines will not work against it. This is where it affects everyone in the world, and yes, your choice affects everyone; that is absolutely possible. This is not a choice against getting vaccinated or not, this is a fight against the virus itself to prevent it from evolving into a worse one. By not getting vaccinated, you are choosing to be a host and giving the virus a chance to be worse; while fighting against yourself and your family and friends.

Dunedan 5y ago

Everybody else is affected as well, as unvaccinated people fill up ICUs which aren't available for non-COVID related cases anymore.

gjsman-1000 5y ago
Fair enough, but what are you going to do? Round them up in camps and forcibly inject them at this point? If the hospitals need to set limits to ensure balanced distribution of resources - the unvaccinated should be alerted and then the “hospital rationing” begins.
- throwaway2077 5y ago
  >Round them up in camps and forcibly inject them at this point? this is already happening, and it is cheered on by the same usual suspects with blue checkmarks who denounced the people who said this is going to happen a year ago as right-wing conspiracy theorists.
- xijingpooh 5y ago
  Hike up their medical insurance bills?
- mikhailt 5y ago
  > Fair enough, but what are you going to do? Isolate them away from the population. We've already started to mandate vaccination for work in many places in US, mask mandates, etc. If the area gets hot enough, then we lock down. We've been doing it already. We can't force anyone to take the vaccine but we don't have to accept them. Why do you think there has been so many protests in US and other countries because of the said mask/vaccine mandates? Everyone's action has consequences, choosing not to get vaccinated does not mean they should be free from any consequences; their consequences are the isolation policies. > If the hospitals need to set limits to ensure balanced distribution of resources - the unvaccinated should be alerted and then the “hospital rationing” begins. They already have and not only that, they're losing a lot of hospital staff as well. A lot of hospitals have stopped or postponed surgeries, dealing with long lines of people in the ERs waiting a long time. Remember, hospitals have the duty to save everyone, they should never be in the situation where they should start to deny help to everyone coming into ER. The whole point of the original lockdowns was to "flatten the curve" where the hospitals can serve everyone as they come in.
- detaro 5y ago
  > Fair enough, but what are you going to do? Round them up in camps and forcibly inject them at this point? Given that up until very recently there was quite little in way of actual restrictions on unvaccinated in Germany, this is really just a false dichotomy.

detaro 5y ago

> if it’s really only among the unvaccinated Where do you get that from? The article certainly doesn't say that. (And even if it were, the follow-up effects like load on the medical system do impact everyone, so unless you opt-out of that too your decision affects everyone)

gjsman-1000 5y ago
The title of the article says it’s mostly the unvaccinated.
- detaro 5y ago
  "mainly driven by" and "only among" is really not the same thing.

mikhailt 5y ago

It is not. The article clearly stated right away in the abstract section: > While the major- ity (about 65%) of the German population were fully vaccinated, incidence started growing exponentially in October 2021 with about 41% of recorded new cases aged twelve or above being symptomatic breakthrough infections, presumably also contributing to the dynamics. Breakthrough infections means infections after the vaccinations. Vaccinations is not a cure nor a prevention, it helps tune the body to fight better against the virus. Vaccinated folks can still get sick with COVID, they just have a much lower risk of dying but they can still have long covid symptoms. Second, this article is not talking about people getting infected, it is talking about how this virus spreads more by unvaccinated people over vaccinated folks. Your choice has an impact on the evolution of the virus by getting infected or allowing it to spread among more hosts. The more hosts infected, the faster the rate of mutation with greater success of spreading and severity or mortality of the disease. Where did you think the Delta variant came from? It wouldn't have evolved on its own if there weren't enough sick folks. By allowing more mutations, it can in fact evolve to the point that our current vaccines will not work against it. This is where it affects everyone in the world, and yes, your choice affects everyone; that is absolutely possible. This is not a choice against getting vaccinated or not, this is a fight against the virus itself to prevent it from evolving into a worse one. By not getting vaccinated, you are choosing to be a host and giving the virus a chance to be worse; while fighting against yourself and your family and friends.