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So in one way this is scary, because it seems like the virus mutates quickly to escape immune systems that know how to find it - so we need new vaccines periodi

So in one way this is scary, because it seems like the virus mutates quickly to escape immune systems that know how to find it - so we need new vaccines periodically. But aren’t we already used to this? From what I understand the flu vaccine is constantly updated and with multiple strains combined every single year. There’s a committee that already does this for influenza, it doesnt seem like to big deal to add one for covid?

podgaj 5y ago
I do not mean any offense to you personally with this comment. I think science should be limited to scientists, and this is a good example. I am not a researcher but I know enough to know what I do not know. People saying that this "virus mutates quickly" is not only wrong but makes it scarier than it is. Every virus mutates when it is in a new host. A variant is created when that mutation confers some survival benefit. But COVID actually mutates MUCH SLOWER than influenza!!!! https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33064680/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33064680/ "Both viruses depend on a viral RNA polymerase to express their proteins, but only SARS-CoV-2 has a proofreading mechanism, which results in a low mutation rate compared to influenza." https://www.astrazeneca.com/what-science-can-do/topics/disease-understanding/the-natural-evolution-of-sars-cov-2.html https://www.astrazeneca.com/what-science-can-do/topics/disea... "The average mutation rate of SARS-CoV-2 remains low and steady, and is much slower than other RNA viruses such as influenza viruses. Unlike coronaviruses, influenza viruses (which cause the flu) are prone to changes through processes called antigenic drift and antigenic shift.3,4" The only thing that makes SARS2 a bigger problem that the flu is the R value, or how fast it spreads. Flu is between R1 and R2, while Delta was between R5 and R7. So the issue is not one of mutations, but of spread. Vaccines do not stop the spread and that is a problem. Even when vaccinates you have no symptoms but you will catch the virus and create mutations. A total worldwide lockdown, IMO, would have stopped this dead because of the low mutation rate. But unfortunately governments favored the economy over lives. And I also blame Fauci and Trump for not making enough N95 masks and Fauci actually discouraging their use in the beginning. At this point it is with us forever since wildlife will continue to spread it. Eventually it will settle to a place where it kills X amount of people and we will be OK with it as we have become OK with the flu killing 30,000 to 70,000 people a year.
- dls2016 5y ago
  > I think science should be limited to scientists The GP asked a question, obviously out of a place of wanting to learn. How else are new scientists produced if we don’t let non-scientists engage in science?
  - gus_massa 5y ago
    It was not a question, the GGP claimed: > because it seems like the virus mutates quickly The problem is that there is too much misinformation floating around, some to claim the virus is fake or innocuous, some to claim that it's more scary than it is. Anyway, I agree that it's good that non scientist participate in the discussion. It would be nice if the experts here can fix the error (preferably with links to the sources). I'm not an expert in biology/medicine, so I can help very little here, but in other topics I can do more. [Nobody is posting about the Em-Drive recently, so I can't post my usual rant against it :( .]
- graeme 5y ago
  Your paper is from June 2020, indicating it was written with data even earlier than that. Now, late 2021, it appears we are seeing more covid mutations than flu mutations. How can this be? For one, we have massively more SARS-Cov-2 cases than flu cases. You could have the fastest mutating virus in the world but if it could only transmit to one host per year it would mutate slower than a virus which mutated 100x slower but had over a billion infections per year. I believe you’ve committed the very error you warned against. With flu vaccines we could do an annual vaccine production schedule as there was one big season in most countries. But with SARS-Cov-2 there is a wave cycle and the problem space gets trickier. Seems to be about four waves a year.
  - podgaj 5y ago
    > Now, late 2021, it appears we are seeing more covid mutations than flu mutations. You cannot just say things like this without citing evidence. It is so frustrating. The flu virus IN VIRTO at any time will mutate faster because it does not have a mechanism to correct mutations like SARS2 does. The second statement I posted was straight from Astra Zenica in 2021 so why did you pick the one you wanted and refute it just because it was old? Because you are lazy and just want to be right. This is from OCTOBER 19, 2021, all you need to do was search. But I am just done with the internet, everyone is everything but no one is nothing. I am going to be nothing. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/10/29/1050465159/covids-endgame-scientists-have-a-clue-about-where-sars-cov-2-is-headed https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/10/29/1050465... "Six months into the pandemic, the virus seemed to be following the predicted course. "To date, there have been very few mutations observed," molecular biologist Peter Thielen at Johns Hopkins University told NPR in June 2020 for a story with the headline: "This Coronavirus Doesn't Change Quickly, And That's Good News For Vaccine Makers.""

podgaj 5y ago

I do not mean any offense to you personally with this comment. I think science should be limited to scientists, and this is a good example. I am not a researcher but I know enough to know what I do not know. People saying that this "virus mutates quickly" is not only wrong but makes it scarier than it is. Every virus mutates when it is in a new host. A variant is created when that mutation confers some survival benefit. But COVID actually mutates MUCH SLOWER than influenza!!!! https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33064680/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33064680/ "Both viruses depend on a viral RNA polymerase to express their proteins, but only SARS-CoV-2 has a proofreading mechanism, which results in a low mutation rate compared to influenza." https://www.astrazeneca.com/what-science-can-do/topics/disease-understanding/the-natural-evolution-of-sars-cov-2.html https://www.astrazeneca.com/what-science-can-do/topics/disea... "The average mutation rate of SARS-CoV-2 remains low and steady, and is much slower than other RNA viruses such as influenza viruses. Unlike coronaviruses, influenza viruses (which cause the flu) are prone to changes through processes called antigenic drift and antigenic shift.3,4" The only thing that makes SARS2 a bigger problem that the flu is the R value, or how fast it spreads. Flu is between R1 and R2, while Delta was between R5 and R7. So the issue is not one of mutations, but of spread. Vaccines do not stop the spread and that is a problem. Even when vaccinates you have no symptoms but you will catch the virus and create mutations. A total worldwide lockdown, IMO, would have stopped this dead because of the low mutation rate. But unfortunately governments favored the economy over lives. And I also blame Fauci and Trump for not making enough N95 masks and Fauci actually discouraging their use in the beginning. At this point it is with us forever since wildlife will continue to spread it. Eventually it will settle to a place where it kills X amount of people and we will be OK with it as we have become OK with the flu killing 30,000 to 70,000 people a year.

dls2016 5y ago
> I think science should be limited to scientists The GP asked a question, obviously out of a place of wanting to learn. How else are new scientists produced if we don’t let non-scientists engage in science?
- gus_massa 5y ago
  It was not a question, the GGP claimed: > because it seems like the virus mutates quickly The problem is that there is too much misinformation floating around, some to claim the virus is fake or innocuous, some to claim that it's more scary than it is. Anyway, I agree that it's good that non scientist participate in the discussion. It would be nice if the experts here can fix the error (preferably with links to the sources). I'm not an expert in biology/medicine, so I can help very little here, but in other topics I can do more. [Nobody is posting about the Em-Drive recently, so I can't post my usual rant against it :( .]
graeme 5y ago
Your paper is from June 2020, indicating it was written with data even earlier than that. Now, late 2021, it appears we are seeing more covid mutations than flu mutations. How can this be? For one, we have massively more SARS-Cov-2 cases than flu cases. You could have the fastest mutating virus in the world but if it could only transmit to one host per year it would mutate slower than a virus which mutated 100x slower but had over a billion infections per year. I believe you’ve committed the very error you warned against. With flu vaccines we could do an annual vaccine production schedule as there was one big season in most countries. But with SARS-Cov-2 there is a wave cycle and the problem space gets trickier. Seems to be about four waves a year.
- podgaj 5y ago
  > Now, late 2021, it appears we are seeing more covid mutations than flu mutations. You cannot just say things like this without citing evidence. It is so frustrating. The flu virus IN VIRTO at any time will mutate faster because it does not have a mechanism to correct mutations like SARS2 does. The second statement I posted was straight from Astra Zenica in 2021 so why did you pick the one you wanted and refute it just because it was old? Because you are lazy and just want to be right. This is from OCTOBER 19, 2021, all you need to do was search. But I am just done with the internet, everyone is everything but no one is nothing. I am going to be nothing. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/10/29/1050465159/covids-endgame-scientists-have-a-clue-about-where-sars-cov-2-is-headed https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/10/29/1050465... "Six months into the pandemic, the virus seemed to be following the predicted course. "To date, there have been very few mutations observed," molecular biologist Peter Thielen at Johns Hopkins University told NPR in June 2020 for a story with the headline: "This Coronavirus Doesn't Change Quickly, And That's Good News For Vaccine Makers.""