3 ms·

I think you're trying too hard to explain how a bias against black names isn't a bias against the racial group. The article said they used archetypal black name

I think you're trying too hard to explain how a bias against black names isn't a bias against the racial group. The article said they used archetypal black names such as "Latoya" or "Tyrone". Taking this at face value, there is no indication of lower socioeconomic level unless you're taking being black itself as the indication. We're not talking about made up ghetto names that we all love to disparage these days. Being biased against standard <racial group> names is in fact a bias against <racial group>.

rayiner 15y ago
You don't see a lot of black guys named "Tyrone" walking around Harvard. Latoya and Tyrone are common black names, and they're also strongly associated with lower socioeconomic level because lots of blacks are in a lower socioeconomic level. The sorts of professional, educated black families that send their kids to good schools and from there to good jobs don't name them these lower-class names.
- kenjackson 15y ago
  Tyrone is just not a common name at all anymore. You're not likely to meet someone named Tyrone at a Crip hangout.
- hackinthebochs 15y ago
  So you're saying that any black name is automatically associated with lower class. I would contend that this proof that bias against names is bias against the race. Edit: just to explain a bit more: my point is that Tyrone and Latoya are not indicative of lower class, any more than simply being black is. Thus a bias against those names is a bias against black in general.
chc 15y ago
If I recall correctly, names that are considered distinctively black but not actually African do tend to be associated with lower-class blacks. It's unfortunate but AFAIK that's the way the world is, largely because blacks historically have felt pressure to seem more "white" as they've moved up in society. So it's hard to disambiguate the two factors. I'd bet you'd see a similar bias against lower-class white names like Bubba or Leroy or most of the names here: http://babynamesworld.parentsconnect.com/forum/topic88623.html http://babynamesworld.parentsconnect.com/forum/topic88623.ht... If it is purely economic, you probably also wouldn't see as much bias against black-sounding names that don't have negative connotations such as Michael Jackson (it might get a smirk, but if it is indeed about economic bias, the name of a prestigious black man should be a good demonstration).
- brazzy 15y ago
  Supporting data: a while ago, a German study showed a heavy bias amongst teachers against children with certain names, among them Dennis, Chantal, Jaqueline and (evoking the most extreme bias) Kevin. While these may be completely neutral in the USA or France, they're not traditional German names and typically chosen after movie or sports stars (Kevin allegedly first appeared in Germany after a certain movie came out, while at the same time British football player Kevin Keegan played in the Bundesliga). And that is something typically done by uneducated parents, while educated people prefer biblical or historical namesakes.
throw_away 15y ago
a bias against the names Cletus or Billy Bob says nothing of the white racial group at large.
- hackinthebochs 15y ago
  A bias against Cletus or Billy Bob is a bias against a subset of a racial group. When the name you're biased against is represented by the entire group, it the only conclusion is that it is a bias against the racial group itself. Lets take this a bit further. For your resume to not be biased against from the start, you have to not have a "typical" black name; essentially erasing any indication of your race from your resume. How is that not a bias against the race? You guys are seriously straining logic here.

rayiner 15y ago

You don't see a lot of black guys named "Tyrone" walking around Harvard. Latoya and Tyrone are common black names, and they're also strongly associated with lower socioeconomic level because lots of blacks are in a lower socioeconomic level. The sorts of professional, educated black families that send their kids to good schools and from there to good jobs don't name them these lower-class names.

kenjackson 15y ago
Tyrone is just not a common name at all anymore. You're not likely to meet someone named Tyrone at a Crip hangout.
hackinthebochs 15y ago
So you're saying that any black name is automatically associated with lower class. I would contend that this proof that bias against names is bias against the race. Edit: just to explain a bit more: my point is that Tyrone and Latoya are not indicative of lower class, any more than simply being black is. Thus a bias against those names is a bias against black in general.

chc 15y ago

If I recall correctly, names that are considered distinctively black but not actually African do tend to be associated with lower-class blacks. It's unfortunate but AFAIK that's the way the world is, largely because blacks historically have felt pressure to seem more "white" as they've moved up in society. So it's hard to disambiguate the two factors. I'd bet you'd see a similar bias against lower-class white names like Bubba or Leroy or most of the names here: http://babynamesworld.parentsconnect.com/forum/topic88623.html http://babynamesworld.parentsconnect.com/forum/topic88623.ht... If it is purely economic, you probably also wouldn't see as much bias against black-sounding names that don't have negative connotations such as Michael Jackson (it might get a smirk, but if it is indeed about economic bias, the name of a prestigious black man should be a good demonstration).

brazzy 15y ago
Supporting data: a while ago, a German study showed a heavy bias amongst teachers against children with certain names, among them Dennis, Chantal, Jaqueline and (evoking the most extreme bias) Kevin. While these may be completely neutral in the USA or France, they're not traditional German names and typically chosen after movie or sports stars (Kevin allegedly first appeared in Germany after a certain movie came out, while at the same time British football player Kevin Keegan played in the Bundesliga). And that is something typically done by uneducated parents, while educated people prefer biblical or historical namesakes.

throw_away 15y ago

a bias against the names Cletus or Billy Bob says nothing of the white racial group at large.

hackinthebochs 15y ago
A bias against Cletus or Billy Bob is a bias against a subset of a racial group. When the name you're biased against is represented by the entire group, it the only conclusion is that it is a bias against the racial group itself. Lets take this a bit further. For your resume to not be biased against from the start, you have to not have a "typical" black name; essentially erasing any indication of your race from your resume. How is that not a bias against the race? You guys are seriously straining logic here.