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Interestingly, some of the in-person debit card payments I make from my German bank appear to work internally as direct debits. They appear as "SEPA-ELV-LASTSCH

by xioxox 5y ago

Interestingly, some of the in-person debit card payments I make from my German bank appear to work internally as direct debits. They appear as "SEPA-ELV-LASTSCHRIFT" on statement. Other card payments are just called "KARTENZAHLUNG". Interestingly, the Lastschrift (direct debit) payments seem reversible on my bank interface, so I could get the money back (presumably invoking letters from the company and debt collectors).

amaccuish 5y ago
When using the girocard there's two ways the retailer can take the amount. Either instantly, or using Lastschrift. The latter is cheaper, but the retailer doesn't have the guarantee that your account actually has sufficient balance to pay. If I remember correctly, the latter method requires you to sign the receipt.
- ThrowAwayIRUK 5y ago
  Actually, in the first case, its not instantly take, instead it is marked as a "abgesicherte laschrift", which is equivalent to enter card+PIN, meaning you can't revoke those. Though, sure you can, but it will end up with nice discussions with your bank :)
- KarlKemp 5y ago
  Yeah, that's where the fun algorithms trying to predict reliability from the set of products you're buying comes in... It's getting rarer, though. The cost difference is eroding and signing is too slow for supermarket checkout lanes. The tables have also turned and some retailers now earn money from the banks for supplying their customers with cash (i. e. you pay by card and get an extra x00 in cash).
ThrowAwayIRUK 5y ago
Depends on which card you have used and which scheme was used to process; In general, "double scheme cards" (MC + Maestro on one card) should offer you the option to choose, while at the POS, which scheme should be used; the thing is, the merchant is not required to offer you this question, and there is a "default scheme" on such cards. This means, in cases the merchant does not ask you, the default scheme is chosen, which is usually the one that brings in more fees for the bank/PSP. And: Depending on the contract between you and your bank, it maybe that you couldn't revoke the "lastschrift", yes.
- Tijdreiziger 5y ago
  I just want to say that I really appreciate your 'insider' comments in this thread. I have always found payments technologies a fascinating and underappreciated topic.

by xioxox 5y ago

amaccuish 5y ago

When using the girocard there's two ways the retailer can take the amount. Either instantly, or using Lastschrift. The latter is cheaper, but the retailer doesn't have the guarantee that your account actually has sufficient balance to pay. If I remember correctly, the latter method requires you to sign the receipt.

ThrowAwayIRUK 5y ago
Actually, in the first case, its not instantly take, instead it is marked as a "abgesicherte laschrift", which is equivalent to enter card+PIN, meaning you can't revoke those. Though, sure you can, but it will end up with nice discussions with your bank :)
KarlKemp 5y ago
Yeah, that's where the fun algorithms trying to predict reliability from the set of products you're buying comes in... It's getting rarer, though. The cost difference is eroding and signing is too slow for supermarket checkout lanes. The tables have also turned and some retailers now earn money from the banks for supplying their customers with cash (i. e. you pay by card and get an extra x00 in cash).

ThrowAwayIRUK 5y ago

Depends on which card you have used and which scheme was used to process; In general, "double scheme cards" (MC + Maestro on one card) should offer you the option to choose, while at the POS, which scheme should be used; the thing is, the merchant is not required to offer you this question, and there is a "default scheme" on such cards. This means, in cases the merchant does not ask you, the default scheme is chosen, which is usually the one that brings in more fees for the bank/PSP. And: Depending on the contract between you and your bank, it maybe that you couldn't revoke the "lastschrift", yes.

Tijdreiziger 5y ago
I just want to say that I really appreciate your 'insider' comments in this thread. I have always found payments technologies a fascinating and underappreciated topic.