3 ms·

You defended me? I thought you stand for the HN rule and its culture of open and reasonable discussion. If you do think you defend me, then you should see that

You defended me? I thought you stand for the HN rule and its culture of open and reasonable discussion. If you do think you defend me, then you should see that I am still in a situation where I am becoming more and more attacked based on narrow view on China-related topics, especially politicizing everything to the degree that alternative and reasonable discussions are plainly impossible. If you do still have faith in HN's value, then you should not defend me, you should defend the value. And if you think I am not embodying HN's value, then do whatever you think it's reasonable. I don't care much about personal "support", I have long forsake those narrow views.

dang 5y ago
Of course, I'm defending HN's values and on occasion have also defended you when I noticed people posting unfair attacks (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23494968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23494968). I realize you're representing a minority viewpoint. The HN demographic is highly international, but also overwhelmingly Western, and that inevitably comes with certain biases. We can benefit from hearing perspectives outside those biases. But that only works if you don't break the rules yourself, and you haven't been keeping to that. I get that it's not easy and not fair, but the truth is that the one who represents a minority or contrarian view has to hold themselves to a higher standard [1]. Otherwise you make it easy for people to point fingers at you when you break the rules and use that as an excuse to discredit you [2]—and then they also point fingers at us and demand to know why we aren't enforcing the rules in your case. That's a lose-lose situation: either we have to ban you and silence a minority voice, or we allow you to break rules that would get others banned, in which case people will rightly accuse us of double standards. We can't allow that; I have to be able to say "no, we don't do that" in good conscience. In order to follow the rules we need you to specifically do three things: (1) stay respectful and neutral when arguing; (2) avoid flamewar (your comments in this thread were inflammatory and way over the line, especially because the topic involves multiple flamewar themes - not just China/West but sexual assault etc.); and (3) not use HN primarily to argue about political and national fights. I'm sure there are other things on HN that interest you as well. Good community members engage out of curiosity on a variety of subjects—not just pre-existing agendas on the single point or two that they feel most passionately about. All of this is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20contrarian%20-dynamic%20-yahoo%20-bentham&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=truth%20discredit%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
- justicezyx 5y ago
  I am not personally felt much about the situation. Your reasoning is always admirable. I did what I did because I believe there needs someone who can be more open about certain things, so that they extend the range of discussion seen as normal here. My statements also serve as a tool to expand the space for discussion for fellow HN visitors to feel more comfortable to express themselves. Do I intentionally break some guidelines here? I personally don't think so. But I cannot deny the accusations according to the site rules. Because site rules are interpreted in that way, and my interpretation is slightly different.
  - dang 5y ago
    I believe you. If you could just do the three things I listed, that would go a long way to solving the problem.

dang 5y ago

Of course, I'm defending HN's values and on occasion have also defended you when I noticed people posting unfair attacks (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23494968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23494968). I realize you're representing a minority viewpoint. The HN demographic is highly international, but also overwhelmingly Western, and that inevitably comes with certain biases. We can benefit from hearing perspectives outside those biases. But that only works if you don't break the rules yourself, and you haven't been keeping to that. I get that it's not easy and not fair, but the truth is that the one who represents a minority or contrarian view has to hold themselves to a higher standard [1]. Otherwise you make it easy for people to point fingers at you when you break the rules and use that as an excuse to discredit you [2]—and then they also point fingers at us and demand to know why we aren't enforcing the rules in your case. That's a lose-lose situation: either we have to ban you and silence a minority voice, or we allow you to break rules that would get others banned, in which case people will rightly accuse us of double standards. We can't allow that; I have to be able to say "no, we don't do that" in good conscience. In order to follow the rules we need you to specifically do three things: (1) stay respectful and neutral when arguing; (2) avoid flamewar (your comments in this thread were inflammatory and way over the line, especially because the topic involves multiple flamewar themes - not just China/West but sexual assault etc.); and (3) not use HN primarily to argue about political and national fights. I'm sure there are other things on HN that interest you as well. Good community members engage out of curiosity on a variety of subjects—not just pre-existing agendas on the single point or two that they feel most passionately about. All of this is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20contrarian%20-dynamic%20-yahoo%20-bentham&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=truth%20discredit%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

justicezyx 5y ago
I am not personally felt much about the situation. Your reasoning is always admirable. I did what I did because I believe there needs someone who can be more open about certain things, so that they extend the range of discussion seen as normal here. My statements also serve as a tool to expand the space for discussion for fellow HN visitors to feel more comfortable to express themselves. Do I intentionally break some guidelines here? I personally don't think so. But I cannot deny the accusations according to the site rules. Because site rules are interpreted in that way, and my interpretation is slightly different.
- dang 5y ago
  I believe you. If you could just do the three things I listed, that would go a long way to solving the problem.