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This seems to confuse two different issues and in doing so leads to the wrong conclusion. The author seems to conclude it's wrong to think race is responsible

This seems to confuse two different issues and in doing so leads to the wrong conclusion. The author seems to conclude it's wrong to think race is responsible for so many 100m winners being black because the assumption is erroneous. But only through making and testing that erroneous assumption (as the author did) are we able to determine it has nothing to do with skin color and more to do with a specific geographical heritage. So I disagree with the author on that point. He then tries to tie that to a study that shows "black names" on resumes are 50% less likely to get call backs from potential employers. But those employers who discriminate are making an assumption they've clearly not tested (that people are worse employees based on their skin color) So the real issue here is people who don't test their conclusions and there's nothing wrong with drawing an initial conclusion as long as you test it against actual facts.

hackinthebochs 15y ago
I'm trying to understand the relevance of the point you're making. While your point is true, it seems largely technical and irrelevant to real world actions. It's not like your average person will out and do a test to see if their biases have a real world basis. The more practical takeaway is that we should attempt to not form these biases in the first place.
- phillmv 15y ago
  >While your point is true, it seems largely technical and irrelevant to real world actions. Hah! I think you're describing about 80% of content of sites like HN ;).
- TomOfTTB 15y ago
  A bias is defined as a conclusion that is held unfairly. The only way to determine if a conclusion is held unfairly is to evaluate it and evaluating a conclusion requires drawing that conclusion in the first place. The relevance is the author is saying "Don't draw race based conclusions because they are unfair by definition". But if you prevent yourself from drawing the conclusion you can't evaluate it. Put in more human terms: People who are afraid of being called racist can't be intellectually honest. Also, just to make the point, racism tends to flourish when people who aren't racist avoid such questions. Right now the most potent rallying point for racists is "The government doesn't want you to know white people are superior". This claim seems to hold weight to people because most scientists are afraid to do race based studies. So by not disproving the racists assumption we actually strengthen it.
  - hackinthebochs 15y ago
    There's a distinction between drawing a conclusion (and thus acting on it) and noticing a possible trend that can be investigated further. One is asking a question, one is answering it. If you draw the conclusion you've already assumed an answer. This is where the danger is. People who form biases are assuming the answer without the supporting evidence. To address your second point: As a natural scientist (as in endlessly curious) I often wonder about genetic differences in racist and how they effect outward traits. From a public policy perspective, I totally understand why most scientists and government officials wouldn't touch those questions with a 10 foot pole. There is just far more potential for negative consequences than positives.
brazzy 15y ago
The author's main point is that racism manifests not just as the (probably unconcious) belief that black people are inferior, but also in the (definitely unconcious) assumption that they are all the same. I'd heard about the CV study before, but not its most interesting finding (which supports the author's point): that the rate of responses for "high quality" CVs with "black names" was just as low as for "low quality" CVs with such names. This is the thing missing in the violent debate about studies showing that black people have a lower average IQ: even if it's true, any specific individual (or even specific sub-group) may still have a very high IQ and deserve respect and success just as much as a non-black person with such a high IQ.

hackinthebochs 15y ago

I'm trying to understand the relevance of the point you're making. While your point is true, it seems largely technical and irrelevant to real world actions. It's not like your average person will out and do a test to see if their biases have a real world basis. The more practical takeaway is that we should attempt to not form these biases in the first place.

phillmv 15y ago
>While your point is true, it seems largely technical and irrelevant to real world actions. Hah! I think you're describing about 80% of content of sites like HN ;).
TomOfTTB 15y ago
A bias is defined as a conclusion that is held unfairly. The only way to determine if a conclusion is held unfairly is to evaluate it and evaluating a conclusion requires drawing that conclusion in the first place. The relevance is the author is saying "Don't draw race based conclusions because they are unfair by definition". But if you prevent yourself from drawing the conclusion you can't evaluate it. Put in more human terms: People who are afraid of being called racist can't be intellectually honest. Also, just to make the point, racism tends to flourish when people who aren't racist avoid such questions. Right now the most potent rallying point for racists is "The government doesn't want you to know white people are superior". This claim seems to hold weight to people because most scientists are afraid to do race based studies. So by not disproving the racists assumption we actually strengthen it.
- hackinthebochs 15y ago
  There's a distinction between drawing a conclusion (and thus acting on it) and noticing a possible trend that can be investigated further. One is asking a question, one is answering it. If you draw the conclusion you've already assumed an answer. This is where the danger is. People who form biases are assuming the answer without the supporting evidence. To address your second point: As a natural scientist (as in endlessly curious) I often wonder about genetic differences in racist and how they effect outward traits. From a public policy perspective, I totally understand why most scientists and government officials wouldn't touch those questions with a 10 foot pole. There is just far more potential for negative consequences than positives.

brazzy 15y ago

The author's main point is that racism manifests not just as the (probably unconcious) belief that black people are inferior, but also in the (definitely unconcious) assumption that they are all the same. I'd heard about the CV study before, but not its most interesting finding (which supports the author's point): that the rate of responses for "high quality" CVs with "black names" was just as low as for "low quality" CVs with such names. This is the thing missing in the violent debate about studies showing that black people have a lower average IQ: even if it's true, any specific individual (or even specific sub-group) may still have a very high IQ and deserve respect and success just as much as a non-black person with such a high IQ.