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People buying SUVs are cancelling out climate gains from electric cars
- richardatlarge 5y agoThere are a lot of big pickups and SUVs on the road. There's a tiny percentage where the vehicle suits the use, but in the vast majority of cases, the vehicles are entirely a fashion with no real utility - or even negative utility. There is only a self-reinforcing utility of defending yourself from other tall and heavy vehicles. All this has been said many times before. When it comes to vehicles, people have no shame. What it tells us about the future of global warming seems very clear.
- HamburgerEmoji 5y agoTo me you seem to be so deep within a fearful delusion about climate disaster that you think it's normal and justified, good even, to micromanage the car choices of others.
- flavius29663 5y agoprisoner's dilemma: if everyone is arming up with larger vehicles, will you keep a sedan just to make a point, putting your family at increasing risks?
- richardatlarge 5y agoNot sure from a rational point of view that the risks are lowered; safest cars today are not SUVs Tragedy of the commons: everyone takes a bit more land to feed their extra goat, the field is overgrazed, all the goats starve. Ie, in wanting more we end up all losers
- flavius29663 5y agoSUVs are certainly safer: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-model https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-...
- pleb_nz 5y agoAgreed, but SUVs do cause additional risk to smaller vehicles. For example, at busy intersections drivers in smaller cars have a lot less visibility due to the walls of SUVs around them. I can't count the amount of times I've had to delay turning at a stop sign to wait for a larger vehicle that has pulled up next to me to leave so I can regain visibility and make the turn. That or it becomes a game of edging out past the big vehicle.
- UncleMeat 5y agoPeople repeat this “defense” thing but it makes little sense to me. The range of crashes where it would be fatal if you were in a sudan and survivable if you were in an suv is surely small. Especially since suvs have additional risk of rolling. Spending tens of thousands extra to make yourself safer on the road is surely better accomplished with better safety features in the car rather than tons of steel.
- smileysteve 5y agoPeople are really bad at evaluating risk. Rollover, Blindspot, and high speed loss of control are huge safety factors that SUVs underperform Sedans in, but "bigger is safer" has somehow persisted.
- helij 5y agoOur new SUV (Honda CR-V Hybrid) has less blind spots than any sedan and hatchback I had in the last 20 years. Life is also much easier with SUV once you have children. Safety features are amazing on CR-V although not much more than Civic 2017 we had earlier. At speeds below 70mph the behaviour of CR-V is pretty similar to Civic.
- smtaz1279 5y agoI bought my SUV around 3 years ago. There wasn't and still isn't non-Tesla, non-crossover, somewhat affordable options. I would love it if they just made an electric version of the vehicle I own, Subaru Ascent. I would gladly trade it in for an electric version. I want a vehicle with 3 rows of seating that can fold down and doesn't try to make a statement with the design. Until companies make cars that don't scream "electric car" with their design, we will continue to see these trends. Looking forward to the F-150 Lightning because that seems like Ford gets it and I would have preordered one if the damn thing could fit in my garage length wise.
- MandieD 5y agoI’m not the first person to say it, but it’s a shame that the station wagon got such a bad rap in the US, because that’s really what a lot of SUV buyers are after, utility-wise. Rear-facing child seats are safer; what about a rear-facing third row?
- bdcravens 5y ago2 years from now I think you'll have quite a few SUV options (though many of them are arguably more CUVS) - Kona, Niro, EV6, etc
- richardatlarge 5y agohttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-11/the-dangerous-rise-of-the-supersized-pickup-truck https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-11/the-dange... Quote: Among the increasingly popular heavy-duty models, the height of the truck’s front end may reach a grown man’s shoulders or neck. When you involve children in this exercise it starts to become really disturbing. My four-year-old son, for example, barely cleared the bumper on a lifted F-250 we came across in a parking lot last summer.
- richardatlarge 5y agoAnother quote: Since 1990, U.S. pickup trucks have added almost 1,300 pounds on average. Some of the biggest vehicles on the market now weigh almost 7,000 pounds — or about three Honda Civics. These vehicles have a voracious appetite for space, one that’s increasingly irreconcilable with the way cities (and garages, and parking lots) are built.
- Factorium 5y agoWe could ban all gas-powered cars now: just start with vehicles priced over $100,000, and decrease the threshold by $10,000 annually.
- relbeek2 5y agoBecause people with kids should have to take public transit? There really isn’t an affordable electric option for people with kids.
- smileysteve 5y agoThere are are a number of lower and lower middle class that people with kids do in fact have to take public transit. And if not public at least extended friend, family transit. Even, non electric, there is an SUV premium that only the top 30% of Americans ~can afford.
- Notanothertoo 5y agoAsking for over half of all Americans - what public transit?? Even in cities like Dallas it's totally not a feasible alternative to a vehicle.
- smileysteve 5y agoOver half? I think you've read my post incorrectly. I preemptively answered this by saying extended friends and family are a top source of transit. But yes, walking, bus systems, getting rides, for some demographics, ride shares. Cities like Atlanta and Dallas have low economic mobility because you can't get anywhere except by car.
- relbeek2 5y agoIt’s the buses in Dallas that drive around all day with only the driver. If your on the outskirts sometimes there are two empty buses driving together.
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- HNTA_1 5y agoIf you have two kids and the grandparents live with you (our situation), unfortunately SUVs are more or less the only option. Otherwise you take two cars everywhere, and two sedans are worse for the environment than one SUV.
- bdcravens 5y agoIf you frequently have that many passengers, then the vehicle makes sense. However, my guess is that most SUVs and trucks on the road at any times have 1-2 passengers in them. It's not broken up by vehicle type, but the average car has 1.5 passengers. https://css.umich.edu/factsheets/personal-transportation-factsheet https://css.umich.edu/factsheets/personal-transportation-fac...
- relbeek2 5y agoMaybe an alternative would be to convert all major roads to tolls, then offer discounts for HOV and electric.
- rascul 5y agoI suspect this may be in part because many people have a need for something like an SUV to carry children and/or cargo from time to time, but can't justify another vehicle so the SUV or truck doesn't need to be driven all the time. In my case, I have a pickup truck I need for work, but I don't drive enough outside of work to justify the cost of keeping my smaller car on the road also.
- geoduck14 5y agoWhen I first got my SUV, I was the only passenger 25% of the time. And I NEEDED it. I would load my 3 kids up, take them to day care, got to work. My wife would pick them up from day care and I would drive home without kids. The SUV was the smallest vehicle I could get to transport 3 kids in car seats. And I needed to drive my kids to day care.
- nvelty 5y agoI think there's a disconnect between some of the folks here and the live of the average suburban family. My mother regularly had to drop-off 4 kids at school then pick up groceries for 6 people. You can't do that with a sedan. There'd be a better case against trucks - they're undoubtedly a fashion statement most of the time, but when you need a truck (which is inevitable for someone with a house/land) there's no substitute. It's even more so in rural areas - no one's gonna throw a deer carcass in the trunk of their Tesla.
- michaelhoney 5y agoI look forward to large SUVs losing their social license. Men can find another way to feel like big tough guys.
- bool3max 5y agoIt's okay to feel weak my man.
- aaron695 5y ago> I look forward to large SUVs losing their social license. Men can find another way to feel like big tough guys. The new 'social license' is to become weak for men is it? Lucky women are stepping up then isn't it. They are driving the SUV market. It's men driving the EV market. How about we grow up and skip the gender stuff and work on making good cars rather than the pride in being pissweak.
- zthrowaway 5y agoWhat a bizarre take on this.
- relbeek2 5y agoAs if there are zero reasons someone should own an SUV.
- geonic 5y agoA huge percentage (about 20%) of all cars I see are SUVs. Even for smaller cars there seems to be a trend towards really bulky bodies. Cars have become larger and larger over the years. We have a giant problem with climate change yet car manufacturers keep making larger and larger cars. And people buy them. This does not make any sense to me. It only accelerates climate change, parking spaces become even harder to find in cities, and most people don't need an SUV at all. I think SUVs and all large trucks that are not real utility vehicles should be outlawed.
- crocodiletears 5y agoStricter occupant safety and emissions requirements incentivise the development of larger vehicle platforms.
- yostrovs 5y agoI need my SUV, but I do wonder what you have that you don't need that we can outlaw without thinking about the consequences.
- geonic 5y agoI don't doubt that there are some legitimate use cases for SUVs. The problem is all the people living in cities have virtually zero need for an SUV. Since it is absolutely unfeasible to require people to provide proof that they need an SUV before purchase the only way seems to outlaw them. The massive push for EVs while simultaneously allowing car manufacturers to build larger and larger ICE SUVs seems stupid and counterproductive.
- yostrovs 5y agoYour totalitarian way of thinking is frightening. "The problem is all the people living in cities have virtually zero need for an SUV." - who are you that you know so much about so many that you don't know? The problem is that you're a self centered totalitarian.
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- kgin 5y agoElectric SUVs will be coming very soon. Two of the first vehicles using GM’s new EV platform rolling out in 2022 are SUVs.
- smileysteve 5y agoSomething missed in the conversation, because the Honda CR-V is a smaller platform than the Honda Accord; the facts for storage capacity or seating aren't there either. If we really examine the differences at a fact level, the main child(ren) factor is really the height (not having to bend over @ a car seat). A small convenience, and a convenience that points to Americans continuing to have less physical mobility. Anecdotally, I do think more people are complaining about the difficulty of squatting down to my sedan seats.
- bool3max 5y agoSUVs look cool. That's why. They are also somewhat of a status symbol.