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The attempts at upselling sure are a bit icky but calling it "Adware", when all it's advertising are company own services, is a bit weird. Puts it into the sam

The attempts at upselling sure are a bit icky but calling it "Adware", when all it's advertising are company own services, is a bit weird. Puts it into the same sphere as a Google or Facebook, both companies that actually heavily rely on ad-revenue from third parties and thus most of their products would easily qualify as actual adware.

KennyBlanken 5y ago
The "ads" aren't even nearly as intrusive as the author (who works for Microsoft - a company whose operating system basically spies on you non-stop, including sending binaries you run to MS, command line commands, etc) suggests. They make it sound like using an iPhone means being constantly assailed with ads. That's not even remotely true. I switched to iOS over a year ago. I don't use any of Apple's paid services. I tried Apple Music under their free three month trial; I was totally unimpressed with the featureset and deactivated it. I think in 6 months I've gotten two, maybe three notifications with offers to re-subscribe. The offers were more and more generous. I use iTunes and Apple Pay, and I can't remember the last time I saw an ad. When I added my cards to Apple Pay, I saw the "sign up for Apple Card" button. I didn't give it more than a second thought, and Apple hasn't "said a word" about Apple Card since. That card, by the way, has one of the strictest personal-data-usage policies of any credit card in the US. They also do something no other CC company does: automatically rotate the CCV code every time the card is used in Apple Pay. If Apple is so hell-bent on selling their services, why do they have the world's least-painful instant sharing tool that works without even a network connection or any additional apps? I can instantly send a contact, photo, file, whatever to someone else with an iPhone. If Apple is so hell-bent on selling their services, why do they make it possible to, with one click, automatically and completely painlessly sync your music, photos, videos, and do complete device backups, over WiFi to a Mac or PC, no iCloud subscription required? You don't get pestered in any way when you click that button, by the way. I use Nextcloud for file sync. It's very tightly integrated into Apple Files; I don't need iCloud for anything. Never get pestered to subscribe to it. Haven't seen an ad for iCloud, ever. My phone does dictation offline, and if I were on a newer model, Siri would work offline too. The Photos app does some magic like showing me how many Damn Cat Photos I take, but it happens entirely on-device. Apple lets you turn off all sorts of data collection that Android doesn't. You'll never see a screen like this in Android: https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_US/iOS/ios13-iphone-xs-settings-privacy-location-services-system-services.jpg https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare... Every single Apple-provided App has the same privacy controls as third party apps. Don't want Notes to use your location? Done. Don't want Maps using cellular data, for some reason? Done. There's also stuff that's just straight-up bullshit. I've never seen an ad in the settings pages. When I bought my phone and synced it for the first time, my music was immediately visible, not "hidden" or blank like they suggest. iTunes isn't even "open" most of the time; I get in the car, iTunes starts playing, I interact with it via steering wheel controls or the lock screen controls. The article is so bizarre. The author is a senior iOS developer for MS so they damn well know everything I just said; this blog entry seems to be purposefully misrepresenting how the OS behaves.
- flenserboy 5y ago
  You said this well. These are annoyances at worst, not dealbreakers, and nothing like what is seen on other platforms.
  - KennyBlanken 5y ago
    Thanks; it does really feel like they're pushing the "Apple puts 'ads' for its own services in its own apps" (something...every...app..does?) to distract from the fact that iOS offers extensive privacy controls. Their employer no doubt finds the increasingly strict privacy controls pretty annoying. Apple offering a lot of functionality that "competes" with their cloud services really takes the wind out of their "APPLE IS TRYING TO FORCE YOU TO USE THEIR CLOUD" nonsense.
- pxc 5y ago
  > the author (who works for Microsoft - a company whose operating system basically spies on you non-stop, including sending binaries you run to MS, command line commands, etc) macOS does this too. For now it appears mostly possible to disable, although disabling some parts may require you to set up a DNS blackhole. There's also some software on macOS that you simply cannot install without an Apple ID, because the App Store is the only way to get it. And setting up an Apple ID on macOS doesn't just require an email address, but also a credit card (with billing address) and a verified phone number. That Apple can seriously be considered a user privacy-oriented company by anyone is a pitiful joke.
  - pxc 5y ago
    Did the folks downvoting me forget about Gatekeeper and trustd or what? https://sneak.berlin/20201112/your-computer-isnt-yours/ https://sneak.berlin/20201112/your-computer-isnt-yours/ > It turns out that in the current version of the macOS, the OS sends to Apple a hash (unique identifier) of each and every program you run, when you run it. Lots of people didn’t realize this, because it’s silent and invisible and it fails instantly and gracefully when you’re offline, but today the server got really slow and it didn’t hit the fail-fast code path, and everyone’s apps failed to open if they were connected to the internet. > Because it does this using the internet, the server sees your IP, of course, and knows what time the request came in. An IP address allows for coarse, city-level and ISP-level geolocation, and allows for a table that has the following headings: > Date, Time, Computer, ISP, City, State, Application Hash Would anyone care to actually make an argument how celebrating an OS that phones home about every application you run, all but forces you to create online accounts, and pushes you to store your data on the cloud as ‘pro-privacy’ because its chief competitor is truly outrageously bad does not speak to a serious degradation in our privacy standards?
JadeNB 5y ago
> The attempts at upselling sure are a bit icky but calling it "Adware", when all it's advertising are company own services, is a bit weird. If a major purpose of the software is to show me ads, then it's adware. As a consumer, it doesn't make my experience any less crappy if those ads are for products from the same company that made the software.
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  A button in Apple Pay that says "Add an Apple Card" is hardly even an upsell. The author is an iOS developer for Microsoft and this piece is basically "APPLE BE EVVIIIIIIL!!!!!!!" shrieking. Their employer's operating system is incredibly invasive with its "telematics", and oh by the way, bundles a shitload of MS and third party junk nobody wants, constantly pesters you to use their browser, etc. Microsoft is annoyed that installing MS Teams, Skype, etc on an iPhone doesn't give them heaps of information about you. This piece is part of their war to get people onto Android, which is literally purpose-built to collect data on its users.
- Angostura 5y ago
  > If a major purpose of the software is to show me ads, then it's adware. But it isn't - so it isn't.
  - JadeNB 5y ago
    I was responding to the claim that a company advertising its own products meant it wasn't adware, not saying anything about whether or not iOS is.
quitit 5y ago
I'll be frank: the whole thing reads like bullshit. The author is imploring you to ignore you personal experience with the platform to accept his interpretation which is purposely devoid of context. Advertising falls into many categories some of these are useful, some of these are annoying. Useful advertising is a feature. If I search for boots on Google and get an ad for a nearby boot store - that's useful, informative advertising - the fact that payment was made for this to happen is irrelevant: I'm still able to choose something else. If I visit a store and there are seasonal decorations, again that's useful, informative/educational advertising. It doesn't force me to buy a turkey or a tree. However if I switch on my phone to find Facebook is preinstalled and difficult or impossible to remove(Samsung devices) - then that is invasive and unwanted advertising. It takes something away from me: storage space, my time, my attention, my patience, my choice. Apple's advertising aligns with providing services that are useful for whatever the user is doing. In a music app: here's a way to get more music, before Apple Music it was the iTunes store. In the news app? it's premium magazine/news services. In your storage settings, it's cloud storage. Like the boots example, it's irrelevant that these are pay for services, these are merely shortcuts to getting more of what you already want in an app which still functions without payment. (There are also plenty of example where such extensions are entirely free, such as additional desktop backgrounds.) That's not adware. A good example of adware is packaging a bunch of games into your OS that have no function unless purchased (Windows), adware is including predatory credit providers inside a web browser (Edge).

KennyBlanken 5y ago

The "ads" aren't even nearly as intrusive as the author (who works for Microsoft - a company whose operating system basically spies on you non-stop, including sending binaries you run to MS, command line commands, etc) suggests. They make it sound like using an iPhone means being constantly assailed with ads. That's not even remotely true. I switched to iOS over a year ago. I don't use any of Apple's paid services. I tried Apple Music under their free three month trial; I was totally unimpressed with the featureset and deactivated it. I think in 6 months I've gotten two, maybe three notifications with offers to re-subscribe. The offers were more and more generous. I use iTunes and Apple Pay, and I can't remember the last time I saw an ad. When I added my cards to Apple Pay, I saw the "sign up for Apple Card" button. I didn't give it more than a second thought, and Apple hasn't "said a word" about Apple Card since. That card, by the way, has one of the strictest personal-data-usage policies of any credit card in the US. They also do something no other CC company does: automatically rotate the CCV code every time the card is used in Apple Pay. If Apple is so hell-bent on selling their services, why do they have the world's least-painful instant sharing tool that works without even a network connection or any additional apps? I can instantly send a contact, photo, file, whatever to someone else with an iPhone. If Apple is so hell-bent on selling their services, why do they make it possible to, with one click, automatically and completely painlessly sync your music, photos, videos, and do complete device backups, over WiFi to a Mac or PC, no iCloud subscription required? You don't get pestered in any way when you click that button, by the way. I use Nextcloud for file sync. It's very tightly integrated into Apple Files; I don't need iCloud for anything. Never get pestered to subscribe to it. Haven't seen an ad for iCloud, ever. My phone does dictation offline, and if I were on a newer model, Siri would work offline too. The Photos app does some magic like showing me how many Damn Cat Photos I take, but it happens entirely on-device. Apple lets you turn off all sorts of data collection that Android doesn't. You'll never see a screen like this in Android: https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_US/iOS/ios13-iphone-xs-settings-privacy-location-services-system-services.jpg https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare... Every single Apple-provided App has the same privacy controls as third party apps. Don't want Notes to use your location? Done. Don't want Maps using cellular data, for some reason? Done. There's also stuff that's just straight-up bullshit. I've never seen an ad in the settings pages. When I bought my phone and synced it for the first time, my music was immediately visible, not "hidden" or blank like they suggest. iTunes isn't even "open" most of the time; I get in the car, iTunes starts playing, I interact with it via steering wheel controls or the lock screen controls. The article is so bizarre. The author is a senior iOS developer for MS so they damn well know everything I just said; this blog entry seems to be purposefully misrepresenting how the OS behaves.

flenserboy 5y ago
You said this well. These are annoyances at worst, not dealbreakers, and nothing like what is seen on other platforms.
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  Thanks; it does really feel like they're pushing the "Apple puts 'ads' for its own services in its own apps" (something...every...app..does?) to distract from the fact that iOS offers extensive privacy controls. Their employer no doubt finds the increasingly strict privacy controls pretty annoying. Apple offering a lot of functionality that "competes" with their cloud services really takes the wind out of their "APPLE IS TRYING TO FORCE YOU TO USE THEIR CLOUD" nonsense.
pxc 5y ago
> the author (who works for Microsoft - a company whose operating system basically spies on you non-stop, including sending binaries you run to MS, command line commands, etc) macOS does this too. For now it appears mostly possible to disable, although disabling some parts may require you to set up a DNS blackhole. There's also some software on macOS that you simply cannot install without an Apple ID, because the App Store is the only way to get it. And setting up an Apple ID on macOS doesn't just require an email address, but also a credit card (with billing address) and a verified phone number. That Apple can seriously be considered a user privacy-oriented company by anyone is a pitiful joke.
- pxc 5y ago
  Did the folks downvoting me forget about Gatekeeper and trustd or what? https://sneak.berlin/20201112/your-computer-isnt-yours/ https://sneak.berlin/20201112/your-computer-isnt-yours/ > It turns out that in the current version of the macOS, the OS sends to Apple a hash (unique identifier) of each and every program you run, when you run it. Lots of people didn’t realize this, because it’s silent and invisible and it fails instantly and gracefully when you’re offline, but today the server got really slow and it didn’t hit the fail-fast code path, and everyone’s apps failed to open if they were connected to the internet. > Because it does this using the internet, the server sees your IP, of course, and knows what time the request came in. An IP address allows for coarse, city-level and ISP-level geolocation, and allows for a table that has the following headings: > Date, Time, Computer, ISP, City, State, Application Hash Would anyone care to actually make an argument how celebrating an OS that phones home about every application you run, all but forces you to create online accounts, and pushes you to store your data on the cloud as ‘pro-privacy’ because its chief competitor is truly outrageously bad does not speak to a serious degradation in our privacy standards?

JadeNB 5y ago

> The attempts at upselling sure are a bit icky but calling it "Adware", when all it's advertising are company own services, is a bit weird. If a major purpose of the software is to show me ads, then it's adware. As a consumer, it doesn't make my experience any less crappy if those ads are for products from the same company that made the software.

KennyBlanken 5y ago
A button in Apple Pay that says "Add an Apple Card" is hardly even an upsell. The author is an iOS developer for Microsoft and this piece is basically "APPLE BE EVVIIIIIIL!!!!!!!" shrieking. Their employer's operating system is incredibly invasive with its "telematics", and oh by the way, bundles a shitload of MS and third party junk nobody wants, constantly pesters you to use their browser, etc. Microsoft is annoyed that installing MS Teams, Skype, etc on an iPhone doesn't give them heaps of information about you. This piece is part of their war to get people onto Android, which is literally purpose-built to collect data on its users.
Angostura 5y ago
> If a major purpose of the software is to show me ads, then it's adware. But it isn't - so it isn't.
- JadeNB 5y ago
  I was responding to the claim that a company advertising its own products meant it wasn't adware, not saying anything about whether or not iOS is.

quitit 5y ago

I'll be frank: the whole thing reads like bullshit. The author is imploring you to ignore you personal experience with the platform to accept his interpretation which is purposely devoid of context. Advertising falls into many categories some of these are useful, some of these are annoying. Useful advertising is a feature. If I search for boots on Google and get an ad for a nearby boot store - that's useful, informative advertising - the fact that payment was made for this to happen is irrelevant: I'm still able to choose something else. If I visit a store and there are seasonal decorations, again that's useful, informative/educational advertising. It doesn't force me to buy a turkey or a tree. However if I switch on my phone to find Facebook is preinstalled and difficult or impossible to remove(Samsung devices) - then that is invasive and unwanted advertising. It takes something away from me: storage space, my time, my attention, my patience, my choice. Apple's advertising aligns with providing services that are useful for whatever the user is doing. In a music app: here's a way to get more music, before Apple Music it was the iTunes store. In the news app? it's premium magazine/news services. In your storage settings, it's cloud storage. Like the boots example, it's irrelevant that these are pay for services, these are merely shortcuts to getting more of what you already want in an app which still functions without payment. (There are also plenty of example where such extensions are entirely free, such as additional desktop backgrounds.) That's not adware. A good example of adware is packaging a bunch of games into your OS that have no function unless purchased (Windows), adware is including predatory credit providers inside a web browser (Edge).