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This may be a normie response - but Apple Airpods Pro are one of the best products I've used. After years of using several bluetooth headsets that get finicky (

by grech 5y ago

This may be a normie response - but Apple Airpods Pro are one of the best products I've used. After years of using several bluetooth headsets that get finicky (with connections that is), having a set that just connects and works every single time is refreshing. They really changed my behavior - I went from not liking phone conversations at all (getting agitated after a few minutes)to comfortably having long phone calls. I would replace mine immediately if they were lost / broken.

rp1 5y ago
I agree with this. I remember buying mine in a busy part of SF. I opened them on the street and my iPhone instantly recognized them and paired. I didn’t even need to open the Bluetooth settings menu. Then, as soon as I put them on, the street I was on, which was so busy and chaotic just prior, became dead silent. I hadn’t experienced magic like that in a long while.
ghostly_s 5y ago
And I would rank them near the bottom because they don't fit in my ears without causing significant pain within a few minutes.
- joshgachnang 5y ago
  Even with the 3 different tip sizes? The old EarPods/AirPods worked alright in my ears but never great. The Pros have been fantastic for me personally.
  - olex 5y ago
    Not the OP, but I have the same issue. Tried the 3 original tip sizes as well as 3rd party foam tips - no use, they either hurt after a short while or don't seal properly, causing ANC to barely work at all and the headphones to fall out when jogging or doing exercise. Guess my ears are not shaped for the Pros, or any in-ear earbuds for that matter - it has always been the same story with any brand I tried over the years. However, the 1st/2nd gen "base" AirPods are a perfect fit for me, so I just ordered a new pair to replace my 3 years old 1st gen with almost completely failed batteries. Would've used something like Podswap, but unfortunately no such service is available in my country that I could find.
javajosh 5y ago
Interesting. I returned my airpod pros because I kept losing them and/or their case, and had anxiety until I found them. And I knew it was only a matter of time before I didn't find them again. Also, the audio quality on the other end of my calls was actively bad. I've reverted to wired earbuds with a mic in the cable, and am (very) grateful I was stubborn about keeping the 3.5mm headphone jack on whatever phone I'm using. (Perhaps my experience would have been better with an iPhone, but there is no way I'm buying an iPhone, for lots of reasons.)
- csomar 5y ago
  If you are losing them at home, they can make a small sound through the Find iPhone page in iCloud.
  - kortilla 5y ago
    Does that actually work when they are in the case? I haven’t gotten it to…
  - riffraff 5y ago
    Sadly, you can't setup find my.. for them if you don't have an iPhone, which seems blatantly anticompetitive behavior from Apple.
- Zanni 5y ago
  Yes! They're so easy to misplace. I lost my first pair of Airpods Pro, so I picked up a Catalyst Case [0] for them that I can clip onto my belt loop or messenger bag. Much more peace of mind. Haven't come close to losing them since. [0] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HP0B2ZM/A/catalyst-waterproof-case-for-airpods-pro-special-edition-black https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HP0B2ZM/A/catalyst-waterp...
- mrsuprawsm 5y ago
  Since the latest iOS minor version (some time in the last month or so), certain models of AirPods are integrated in the Find My network, meaning if you lose them, other (participating) iPhones in the area (~1b worldwide) will report their location as they go past. Meaning they should be much harder to lose. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207581 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207581 https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/5/22711557/apple-lost-airpods-pro-max-find-my-network-now-available https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/5/22711557/apple-lost-airpo... Speaking of, the Find My network also seems excellently designed. Reminds you if/when you leave any tagged item (keys, wallet, etc) behind.
hedgehog 5y ago
If they are the original version consider getting them tested at the store to see if they are covered by the recall. Free replacement with the new model (apparently with improved adhesives).
jessriedel 5y ago
Useful observations, but is this really a comment on design? The key feature, a robust connection, is just software/firmware quality.
- ozzythecat 5y ago
  I don’t quite understand this comment. As a customer, I don’t care what a firmware is or if it’s the best software or if it runs in Azure or iCloud. To me, it just works. I don’t care how. The fact that it works way better than competitor products I tried over the years is enough to say it’s well defined. The key is a frictionless experience.
  - jessriedel 5y ago
    The topic of discussion isn't product performance, it's design. If a certain car model has a high top speed, this may be suggestive evidence that the engine is well designed, but the top speed itself is not considered an example good design. So it would be fine if we had something to say about the design of the Apple software that produced the reliable Bluetooth connection, but just the fact that something doesn't break isn't good design. That's my understanding anyway.
    - ozzythecat 5y ago
      > If a certain car model has a high top speed, this may be suggestive evidence that the engine is well designed, but the top speed itself is not considered an example good design. I don’t think this is a useful analogy. Top speed is a randomly picked metric, which presumably most car buyers don’t care for. Once you get into the exotic super car car segment, then one could say that a super car that only tops out at 60mph or is 0-60 in 8 seconds is poorly designed… and more so if they care about performance over other measures (reliability, crash safety, fuel efficiency, comfort, etc). A design document has both functional and non functional requirements. > but just the fact that something doesn't break isn't good design. If your non functional requirements optimize for reliability and consistency, and that’s exactly what your implementation does while making reasonable trade offs, that’s the exact hallmark of not just a good but great design.
dionidium 5y ago
> I went from not liking phone conversations at all (getting agitated after a few minutes)to comfortably having long phone calls I love my Airpods. One of my favorite products of all time. But I've found them to be totally useless on calls. I'm on my third pair -- that's another thing: they wear out if you use them a lot -- and I've had 3 different phones in the meantime and nobody can ever hear me when I talk on them. I've tested it myself and they make the speaker sound very quiet and far away. It must not affect everyone, because I see people using them for phone calls, but I've never been able to make that function work.
- ycombinete 5y ago
  I can’t bring myself to spend this much money on a device that has worse mic audio than my free airpods. And it’s the same for all wireless buds, the mic is just in the wrong position.
bm-rf 5y ago
I’ve owned both the pro and the max. Returned the max because the pro has noticeably superior noise canceling. Also weight + portability.
alok-g 5y ago
I hear the latency is high, which is a challenge for all wireless earphones. So good for music and calls, but not for videos, games, singing. Do I understand correctly? :-)
- dijit 5y ago
  “It depends”, it’s not high latency enough to notice on calls, music is obviously fine- but it’s not going to be able to keep up with a graded DAC+Mic in a professional setting (like a recording studio). I haven’t tried it for video editing, though I suspect it might cause your scrobbing to stutter because macos will “pause” media playback until the headphones have been instructed to play, so you don’t have desync issues. But that’s not what it competes against. There’s no noticeable latency when using the phone/iPad, Mac as a normal consumer, calls, music, video conferencing.
- oriolid 5y ago
  The basic AirPods are the lowest latency Bluetooth headphones I have tried. In A2DP mode the latency is somewhere around 30ms that is almost good enough for playing an instrument through them but certainly good enough for games or phone calls. The theoretical minimum for AAC is around 21ms. For calls the problem is that somehow Apple didn't invent a proprietary extension so you're stuck with HFP sound quality.
  - alok-g 5y ago
    That is good indeed. I was reading that the numbers are higher than 200 ms. https://semiserious.blog/airpods-pro https://semiserious.blog/airpods-pro Is the latency under A2DP mode specified somewhere?
    - oriolid 5y ago
      My numbers are from measuring round trip latency through headphones and phone's built in mic and then basically guessing which part is input and which part output latency (they're both small). 200ms is certainly in line with most Bluetooth headphones. I'm not sure what the guy is doing differently from the app I'm working on, but for us AirPods are clearly the lowest latency choice. EDIT: Ignore what I wrote below and see the update. I'm getting similar latency numbers. Generally, the guy is getting so massive latencies that I suspect he's doing something wrong. The app I'm working on has MIDI to wired audio latency around 10ms when audio buffer size is dropped to 128 samples, so 70ms sounds really excessive. Touchscreen is both slow and the timing is all over the place (try playing drums in GarageBand to see) so it might explain some of it.
carlgreene 5y ago
I agree, unfortunately however I've recently developed worsening tinnitus that I've attributed to them. There appear to be several others who have a similar experience[0]. I've stopped using them in favor of my over-ear VModas the past couple weeks and my tinnitus is significantly better. I rarely listen to music loud and the volume only seldom goes over 50% so I'm having a hard time attributing it to excess listening volume. [0]: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250886390 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250886390
- kortilla 5y ago
  I’m curious, did the amount of time you used go up significantly with the airpod pros? I enjoy mine so much I use them for multiple hours every day, which is quite a shift in usage compared to the other awful earbuds I would use before.
  - Demcox 5y ago
    Yes, most definitely hence why I also began to wonder, if the increased usage time may come with caveats. This is just a thought, but I pondered that the noice-cancelling is further worsening ear health. I'd argue that AirPodsPro NC causes this because it feeds additional sound in (ie. cancelling) which takes an extra toll on your hearing. Again, just a thought. I have no science to back this up.
- Demcox 5y ago
  This is something I've been concerned about for quite some time with nose-cancelling in-ears. Being an avid user of my AirPodsPro for commutes, working out and just taking calls in general, I figured that the constant noise cancellation, and tight seal in the ear canal, might cause tinnitus. I haven't experienced any symptoms yet but I fear that prolonged use will further highten the chances of such a diagnosis. I'm sorry to hear that you might be experiencing tinnitus from AirPodsPro use, but I can't say that it haven't cross my mind, that it would lead to that.
arendtio 5y ago
Sounds great, I bought a pair just yesterday ;-) I am really looking forward to trying them out. So far I have $40 NoName true-wireless headphones [1] and Sennheiser over-ear ANC headpones (MB660). I really like those $40 headphones, but sadly they last for 4-5 hours only and I reach that limit a few times per week. But since the true wireless headphones feel very different to the over-ear headphones, I decided to buy another pair and wanted to try out some high quality ANC in-ear headphones. Given the factor 5 price difference and the fact that I am quite happy with my current headphones, I am very interested how the Apple AirPods Pro will perform. [1] HolyHigh BE1018. They look exactly like these: https://www.amazon.com/-/en/dp/B07XFMHQDP https://www.amazon.com/-/en/dp/B07XFMHQDP
vanilla_nut 5y ago
I bought Airpods soon after they came out, and got a pair of Airpods Pro just a couple of years ago as a gift for my girlfriend. I just switched back to a pair of $50 IEMs (Tin T2 Pros) with a replaceable MMCX cable and foam tips. Fortunately I use a phone that has a jack. The removal of the headphone jack is an absolute crime. Everyone I know struggles with Bluetooth regularly, but even the Apple models with special pairing chips don’t ALWAYS behave. Meanwhile, I do have to deal with a cable on these IEMs… but honestly, after 2+ years of suffering with Bluetooth, I’m more than happy with that tradeoff. By the way, the headphones I have now are absolutely fantastic. Especially with the foam tips, noise cancellation is just about as good as my Airpod Pros, and I can either wear them like normal headphones, or hooked above the ear, to keep them more secure (mostly while running). They’re also built out of solid aluminum like absolute tanks. If anybody is skeptical about Bluetooth headphones, please seek out phones with the jack and try out something like these IEMs. I think you’ll be very happy.
- pks016 5y ago
  or/and Try something like FiiO BTR5.
cdeutsch 5y ago
I much prefer the regular/original Airpods with the tapping instead of pinching. Whoever designed pinching, obviously doesn't listen to books or podcasts. Three pinches to skip back 15 seconds? No thanks. They also don't have winter. Trying pinching with a stocking cap on.

by grech 5y ago

rp1 5y ago

I agree with this. I remember buying mine in a busy part of SF. I opened them on the street and my iPhone instantly recognized them and paired. I didn’t even need to open the Bluetooth settings menu. Then, as soon as I put them on, the street I was on, which was so busy and chaotic just prior, became dead silent. I hadn’t experienced magic like that in a long while.

ghostly_s 5y ago

And I would rank them near the bottom because they don't fit in my ears without causing significant pain within a few minutes.

joshgachnang 5y ago
Even with the 3 different tip sizes? The old EarPods/AirPods worked alright in my ears but never great. The Pros have been fantastic for me personally.
- olex 5y ago
  Not the OP, but I have the same issue. Tried the 3 original tip sizes as well as 3rd party foam tips - no use, they either hurt after a short while or don't seal properly, causing ANC to barely work at all and the headphones to fall out when jogging or doing exercise. Guess my ears are not shaped for the Pros, or any in-ear earbuds for that matter - it has always been the same story with any brand I tried over the years. However, the 1st/2nd gen "base" AirPods are a perfect fit for me, so I just ordered a new pair to replace my 3 years old 1st gen with almost completely failed batteries. Would've used something like Podswap, but unfortunately no such service is available in my country that I could find.

javajosh 5y ago

Interesting. I returned my airpod pros because I kept losing them and/or their case, and had anxiety until I found them. And I knew it was only a matter of time before I didn't find them again. Also, the audio quality on the other end of my calls was actively bad. I've reverted to wired earbuds with a mic in the cable, and am (very) grateful I was stubborn about keeping the 3.5mm headphone jack on whatever phone I'm using. (Perhaps my experience would have been better with an iPhone, but there is no way I'm buying an iPhone, for lots of reasons.)

csomar 5y ago
If you are losing them at home, they can make a small sound through the Find iPhone page in iCloud.
- kortilla 5y ago
  Does that actually work when they are in the case? I haven’t gotten it to…
- riffraff 5y ago
  Sadly, you can't setup find my.. for them if you don't have an iPhone, which seems blatantly anticompetitive behavior from Apple.
Zanni 5y ago
Yes! They're so easy to misplace. I lost my first pair of Airpods Pro, so I picked up a Catalyst Case [0] for them that I can clip onto my belt loop or messenger bag. Much more peace of mind. Haven't come close to losing them since. [0] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HP0B2ZM/A/catalyst-waterproof-case-for-airpods-pro-special-edition-black https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HP0B2ZM/A/catalyst-waterp...
mrsuprawsm 5y ago
Since the latest iOS minor version (some time in the last month or so), certain models of AirPods are integrated in the Find My network, meaning if you lose them, other (participating) iPhones in the area (~1b worldwide) will report their location as they go past. Meaning they should be much harder to lose. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207581 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207581 https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/5/22711557/apple-lost-airpods-pro-max-find-my-network-now-available https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/5/22711557/apple-lost-airpo... Speaking of, the Find My network also seems excellently designed. Reminds you if/when you leave any tagged item (keys, wallet, etc) behind.

hedgehog 5y ago

If they are the original version consider getting them tested at the store to see if they are covered by the recall. Free replacement with the new model (apparently with improved adhesives).

jessriedel 5y ago

Useful observations, but is this really a comment on design? The key feature, a robust connection, is just software/firmware quality.

ozzythecat 5y ago
I don’t quite understand this comment. As a customer, I don’t care what a firmware is or if it’s the best software or if it runs in Azure or iCloud. To me, it just works. I don’t care how. The fact that it works way better than competitor products I tried over the years is enough to say it’s well defined. The key is a frictionless experience.
- jessriedel 5y ago
  The topic of discussion isn't product performance, it's design. If a certain car model has a high top speed, this may be suggestive evidence that the engine is well designed, but the top speed itself is not considered an example good design. So it would be fine if we had something to say about the design of the Apple software that produced the reliable Bluetooth connection, but just the fact that something doesn't break isn't good design. That's my understanding anyway.
  - ozzythecat 5y ago
    > If a certain car model has a high top speed, this may be suggestive evidence that the engine is well designed, but the top speed itself is not considered an example good design. I don’t think this is a useful analogy. Top speed is a randomly picked metric, which presumably most car buyers don’t care for. Once you get into the exotic super car car segment, then one could say that a super car that only tops out at 60mph or is 0-60 in 8 seconds is poorly designed… and more so if they care about performance over other measures (reliability, crash safety, fuel efficiency, comfort, etc). A design document has both functional and non functional requirements. > but just the fact that something doesn't break isn't good design. If your non functional requirements optimize for reliability and consistency, and that’s exactly what your implementation does while making reasonable trade offs, that’s the exact hallmark of not just a good but great design.

dionidium 5y ago

> I went from not liking phone conversations at all (getting agitated after a few minutes)to comfortably having long phone calls I love my Airpods. One of my favorite products of all time. But I've found them to be totally useless on calls. I'm on my third pair -- that's another thing: they wear out if you use them a lot -- and I've had 3 different phones in the meantime and nobody can ever hear me when I talk on them. I've tested it myself and they make the speaker sound very quiet and far away. It must not affect everyone, because I see people using them for phone calls, but I've never been able to make that function work.

ycombinete 5y ago
I can’t bring myself to spend this much money on a device that has worse mic audio than my free airpods. And it’s the same for all wireless buds, the mic is just in the wrong position.

bm-rf 5y ago

I’ve owned both the pro and the max. Returned the max because the pro has noticeably superior noise canceling. Also weight + portability.

alok-g 5y ago

I hear the latency is high, which is a challenge for all wireless earphones. So good for music and calls, but not for videos, games, singing. Do I understand correctly? :-)

dijit 5y ago
“It depends”, it’s not high latency enough to notice on calls, music is obviously fine- but it’s not going to be able to keep up with a graded DAC+Mic in a professional setting (like a recording studio). I haven’t tried it for video editing, though I suspect it might cause your scrobbing to stutter because macos will “pause” media playback until the headphones have been instructed to play, so you don’t have desync issues. But that’s not what it competes against. There’s no noticeable latency when using the phone/iPad, Mac as a normal consumer, calls, music, video conferencing.
oriolid 5y ago
The basic AirPods are the lowest latency Bluetooth headphones I have tried. In A2DP mode the latency is somewhere around 30ms that is almost good enough for playing an instrument through them but certainly good enough for games or phone calls. The theoretical minimum for AAC is around 21ms. For calls the problem is that somehow Apple didn't invent a proprietary extension so you're stuck with HFP sound quality.
- alok-g 5y ago
  That is good indeed. I was reading that the numbers are higher than 200 ms. https://semiserious.blog/airpods-pro https://semiserious.blog/airpods-pro Is the latency under A2DP mode specified somewhere?
  - oriolid 5y ago
    My numbers are from measuring round trip latency through headphones and phone's built in mic and then basically guessing which part is input and which part output latency (they're both small). 200ms is certainly in line with most Bluetooth headphones. I'm not sure what the guy is doing differently from the app I'm working on, but for us AirPods are clearly the lowest latency choice. EDIT: Ignore what I wrote below and see the update. I'm getting similar latency numbers. Generally, the guy is getting so massive latencies that I suspect he's doing something wrong. The app I'm working on has MIDI to wired audio latency around 10ms when audio buffer size is dropped to 128 samples, so 70ms sounds really excessive. Touchscreen is both slow and the timing is all over the place (try playing drums in GarageBand to see) so it might explain some of it.

carlgreene 5y ago

I agree, unfortunately however I've recently developed worsening tinnitus that I've attributed to them. There appear to be several others who have a similar experience[0]. I've stopped using them in favor of my over-ear VModas the past couple weeks and my tinnitus is significantly better. I rarely listen to music loud and the volume only seldom goes over 50% so I'm having a hard time attributing it to excess listening volume. [0]: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250886390 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250886390

kortilla 5y ago
I’m curious, did the amount of time you used go up significantly with the airpod pros? I enjoy mine so much I use them for multiple hours every day, which is quite a shift in usage compared to the other awful earbuds I would use before.
- Demcox 5y ago
  Yes, most definitely hence why I also began to wonder, if the increased usage time may come with caveats. This is just a thought, but I pondered that the noice-cancelling is further worsening ear health. I'd argue that AirPodsPro NC causes this because it feeds additional sound in (ie. cancelling) which takes an extra toll on your hearing. Again, just a thought. I have no science to back this up.
Demcox 5y ago
This is something I've been concerned about for quite some time with nose-cancelling in-ears. Being an avid user of my AirPodsPro for commutes, working out and just taking calls in general, I figured that the constant noise cancellation, and tight seal in the ear canal, might cause tinnitus. I haven't experienced any symptoms yet but I fear that prolonged use will further highten the chances of such a diagnosis. I'm sorry to hear that you might be experiencing tinnitus from AirPodsPro use, but I can't say that it haven't cross my mind, that it would lead to that.

arendtio 5y ago

Sounds great, I bought a pair just yesterday ;-) I am really looking forward to trying them out. So far I have $40 NoName true-wireless headphones [1] and Sennheiser over-ear ANC headpones (MB660). I really like those $40 headphones, but sadly they last for 4-5 hours only and I reach that limit a few times per week. But since the true wireless headphones feel very different to the over-ear headphones, I decided to buy another pair and wanted to try out some high quality ANC in-ear headphones. Given the factor 5 price difference and the fact that I am quite happy with my current headphones, I am very interested how the Apple AirPods Pro will perform. [1] HolyHigh BE1018. They look exactly like these: https://www.amazon.com/-/en/dp/B07XFMHQDP https://www.amazon.com/-/en/dp/B07XFMHQDP

vanilla_nut 5y ago

I bought Airpods soon after they came out, and got a pair of Airpods Pro just a couple of years ago as a gift for my girlfriend. I just switched back to a pair of $50 IEMs (Tin T2 Pros) with a replaceable MMCX cable and foam tips. Fortunately I use a phone that has a jack. The removal of the headphone jack is an absolute crime. Everyone I know struggles with Bluetooth regularly, but even the Apple models with special pairing chips don’t ALWAYS behave. Meanwhile, I do have to deal with a cable on these IEMs… but honestly, after 2+ years of suffering with Bluetooth, I’m more than happy with that tradeoff. By the way, the headphones I have now are absolutely fantastic. Especially with the foam tips, noise cancellation is just about as good as my Airpod Pros, and I can either wear them like normal headphones, or hooked above the ear, to keep them more secure (mostly while running). They’re also built out of solid aluminum like absolute tanks. If anybody is skeptical about Bluetooth headphones, please seek out phones with the jack and try out something like these IEMs. I think you’ll be very happy.

pks016 5y ago
or/and Try something like FiiO BTR5.

cdeutsch 5y ago

I much prefer the regular/original Airpods with the tapping instead of pinching. Whoever designed pinching, obviously doesn't listen to books or podcasts. Three pinches to skip back 15 seconds? No thanks. They also don't have winter. Trying pinching with a stocking cap on.