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Unfortunately, you’d be surprised. I know of at least one

freeflight 5y ago
I know dozens of people working in the healthcare sector skeptical of covid vaccines, among them virologists specialized in RNA viruses. Their skepticism is far more nuanced, and evidence based, than the "All vaccines are poison/bill gates gonna 5G us!" covid vaccine skepticism is usually framed as. They do not oppose any other common sense measures, like mask wearing, they simply want to be careful about vaccines that have been pushed to markets in record times on very questionable, mostly political, narratives. Like vaccines allegedly saving us with "heard immunity" when most people familiar with the topic knew very well how that was extremely unlikely to happen.
- galaxyLogic 5y ago
  From the link below we see evidence that the chance of dying from Covid-19 is multiple times bigger for the unvaccinated than for the vaccinated. I wonder what kind of "smart" person ignores this evidence and puts their life at risk at will? Hey my chance of dying from Covid is 10 times bigger because I don't get vaccinated, but I won't because I believe an even worse fate awaits me if I do. What do they think that worse fate is? About the vaccine not giving us herd-immunity, of course it doesn't if the herd refuses to get vaccinated. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~All+ages https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-co...
  - Markoff 5y ago
    these calculations always include risk groups, without them it would make look vaccine much less appealing odds of dying from COVID for vaxxed non risk groups are pretty much same as for vaxxed non risk group, 10 times zero is still a zero nobody is denying vaccine is helping the risk groups, but there is hardly any benefit for people not at risk (healthy weight, no chronic disease)
    - Markoff 5y ago
      correction: odds of dying from COVID for unvaxxed non risk groups are pretty much same as for vaxxed non risk group, 10 times zero is still a zero
  - zerocount 5y ago
    The chance of dying of Covid-19 while being unvaccinated is very low. The benefit of being vaccinated is a further reduction in the chance of dying if infected and a reduction in symptom severity if infected. There is still a very low chance of severe symptoms and/or death if infected while being vaccinated. Also, there have been cases of people dying within weeks of receiving a vaccine dose; I won't comment on what that implies. I'm not vaccinated. I did get Covid-19 and recovered well. The only lasting effect seems to be that I smell an anti-freeze odor at times. I don't feel like I was putting my life at risk by not getting vaccinated, in fact, I feel even more strongly against getting a vaccine that appears to be more beneficial to those who are at high risk of severe symptoms and/or death than the general population. In any case, I respect others' opinions on the matter and don't judge them for their decisions on vaccination. The fact that vaccinated people can still get infected and possibly transmit the virus to others seems to indicate we should stop focussing on a general solution and focus on those in high risk categories. The Covid-19 pill seems like a good first step in that direction.
  - freeflight 5y ago
    > From the link below we see evidence that the chance of dying from Covid-19 is multiple times bigger for the unvaccinated than for the vaccinated. That depends on a lot of factors, among them the virus strain, the age group or how long ago the vaccinations happened. Germany is already having death streaks in pension homes again, were vaccination rates of the elderly are 100% [0]. But those 100% happened earlier this year, since then the vaccine protection has heavily diminished. [0] https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland-pfalz/mainz/corona-ausbruch-in-seniorenheim-osthofen-wird-geprueft-100.html https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland-pfalz/mainz/corona-a...
- pier25 5y ago
  I'm fully vaccinated, but I've read a couple of times how vaccines are making this worse since they provide a vector for the virus to evolve against. These claims make sense to my layman understanding, but I really have no idea.
  - freeflight 5y ago
    > In human infections of highly pathogenic coronaviruses SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, the most vulnerable populations are patients over the age of 65 and patients with comorbidities, and design of efficacious vaccines for patients in these groups is difficult. Vaccine formulations that have been developed against SARS-CoV not only fail to protect animal models of aged populations, but also result in immunopathology in younger populations, where SARS disease is enhanced in vaccinated groups that are subsequently challenged with SARSCoV That's from USAMRIID research into broad-spectrum coronavirus antiviral drugs released in March 2019 [0], relevant citations in the paper. They also mention the possibility of using a "modular vaccine platform", which would be RNA vaccines, but they only considered their use for emergency coverage and also point out how vaccines alone are unlikely to eradicate it, as long as the virus continues to circulate in potential animal reservoirs. While earlier in the paper it's pointed out; > Gammacoronaviruses and deltacoronaviruses have no known viruses that infect humans, but contain important agricultural pathogens of livestock. Which is also an angle that seems weirdly lacking from the public debate [1] [0] https://sci-hub.ru/10.1080/17460441.2019.1581171 https://sci-hub.ru/10.1080/17460441.2019.1581171 [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/xen.12591 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/xen.12591

I know dozens of people working in the healthcare sector skeptical of covid vaccines, among them virologists specialized in RNA viruses. Their skepticism is far more nuanced, and evidence based, than the "All vaccines are poison/bill gates gonna 5G us!" covid vaccine skepticism is usually framed as. They do not oppose any other common sense measures, like mask wearing, they simply want to be careful about vaccines that have been pushed to markets in record times on very questionable, mostly political, narratives. Like vaccines allegedly saving us with "heard immunity" when most people familiar with the topic knew very well how that was extremely unlikely to happen.

galaxyLogic 5y ago
From the link below we see evidence that the chance of dying from Covid-19 is multiple times bigger for the unvaccinated than for the vaccinated. I wonder what kind of "smart" person ignores this evidence and puts their life at risk at will? Hey my chance of dying from Covid is 10 times bigger because I don't get vaccinated, but I won't because I believe an even worse fate awaits me if I do. What do they think that worse fate is? About the vaccine not giving us herd-immunity, of course it doesn't if the herd refuses to get vaccinated. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~All+ages https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-co...
- Markoff 5y ago
  these calculations always include risk groups, without them it would make look vaccine much less appealing odds of dying from COVID for vaxxed non risk groups are pretty much same as for vaxxed non risk group, 10 times zero is still a zero nobody is denying vaccine is helping the risk groups, but there is hardly any benefit for people not at risk (healthy weight, no chronic disease)
  - Markoff 5y ago
    correction: odds of dying from COVID for unvaxxed non risk groups are pretty much same as for vaxxed non risk group, 10 times zero is still a zero
- zerocount 5y ago
  The chance of dying of Covid-19 while being unvaccinated is very low. The benefit of being vaccinated is a further reduction in the chance of dying if infected and a reduction in symptom severity if infected. There is still a very low chance of severe symptoms and/or death if infected while being vaccinated. Also, there have been cases of people dying within weeks of receiving a vaccine dose; I won't comment on what that implies. I'm not vaccinated. I did get Covid-19 and recovered well. The only lasting effect seems to be that I smell an anti-freeze odor at times. I don't feel like I was putting my life at risk by not getting vaccinated, in fact, I feel even more strongly against getting a vaccine that appears to be more beneficial to those who are at high risk of severe symptoms and/or death than the general population. In any case, I respect others' opinions on the matter and don't judge them for their decisions on vaccination. The fact that vaccinated people can still get infected and possibly transmit the virus to others seems to indicate we should stop focussing on a general solution and focus on those in high risk categories. The Covid-19 pill seems like a good first step in that direction.
- freeflight 5y ago
  > From the link below we see evidence that the chance of dying from Covid-19 is multiple times bigger for the unvaccinated than for the vaccinated. That depends on a lot of factors, among them the virus strain, the age group or how long ago the vaccinations happened. Germany is already having death streaks in pension homes again, were vaccination rates of the elderly are 100% [0]. But those 100% happened earlier this year, since then the vaccine protection has heavily diminished. [0] https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland-pfalz/mainz/corona-ausbruch-in-seniorenheim-osthofen-wird-geprueft-100.html https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland-pfalz/mainz/corona-a...
pier25 5y ago
I'm fully vaccinated, but I've read a couple of times how vaccines are making this worse since they provide a vector for the virus to evolve against. These claims make sense to my layman understanding, but I really have no idea.
- freeflight 5y ago
  > In human infections of highly pathogenic coronaviruses SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, the most vulnerable populations are patients over the age of 65 and patients with comorbidities, and design of efficacious vaccines for patients in these groups is difficult. Vaccine formulations that have been developed against SARS-CoV not only fail to protect animal models of aged populations, but also result in immunopathology in younger populations, where SARS disease is enhanced in vaccinated groups that are subsequently challenged with SARSCoV That's from USAMRIID research into broad-spectrum coronavirus antiviral drugs released in March 2019 [0], relevant citations in the paper. They also mention the possibility of using a "modular vaccine platform", which would be RNA vaccines, but they only considered their use for emergency coverage and also point out how vaccines alone are unlikely to eradicate it, as long as the virus continues to circulate in potential animal reservoirs. While earlier in the paper it's pointed out; > Gammacoronaviruses and deltacoronaviruses have no known viruses that infect humans, but contain important agricultural pathogens of livestock. Which is also an angle that seems weirdly lacking from the public debate [1] [0] https://sci-hub.ru/10.1080/17460441.2019.1581171 https://sci-hub.ru/10.1080/17460441.2019.1581171 [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/xen.12591 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/xen.12591