3 ms·

>but not really such an outlier compared to the prior finds I'm in complete disagreement with you on that. It's obviously part of an established iconographic t

by Bayart 5y ago

>but not really such an outlier compared to the prior finds I'm in complete disagreement with you on that. It's obviously part of an established iconographic tradition and in that stylistic sense, it's not outlying. But the craftsmanship is in another class entirely. It's a qualitative leap from every other known piece.

credit_guy 5y ago
> It's a qualitative leap from every other known piece. Fair enough. Now, since we are on HN, a site dedicated to "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity", I'll advance a question. First the background: stone seals were used to ratify all sorts of contracts. The more intricate the seal, the more status the owner had, and most likely this was in part due to the fact that it was more difficult to forge. So, the owner of such a seal very likely enjoyed a nice status dividend. Of course, the person himself was shown a lot of respect and deference in face-to-face encounters, but because of the seal, his representatives could enjoy some form of authority hundreds of miles away from the home base. And since Minos was a maritime civilization, this probably was quite a typical occurrence. Now, here's the question: this seal stone was made hundreds of years before the Bronze Age collapse. I agree with you that it appears to be qualitatively way above all the other seal stones discovered so far (and most likely those not discovered too, since we have discovered thousands of inprints as well, and a spectacular inprint would have been publicized). So the question is: why didn't the craftsman who made this seal, or his disciples, or some other craftsmen not create similar sealstones during the next few centuries? And maybe I'm allowed to engage in some wild speculation here. The owner of the seal, well aware of the immense advantages he enjoyed because of its uniqueness, was most likely also aware that if more such seals were to flood the market, his comparative status would diminish. So, he had all the reasons to make sure this didn't happen. Now, most cultures have some type of myth of the master artisan being killed or imprisoned by his patron, but the first and most well known such myth is the one of Daedalus, who worked for ... king Minos. Is it possible that the creator of the Pylos Combat Agate suffered the fate of Daedalus?

by Bayart 5y ago

credit_guy 5y ago

> It's a qualitative leap from every other known piece. Fair enough. Now, since we are on HN, a site dedicated to "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity", I'll advance a question. First the background: stone seals were used to ratify all sorts of contracts. The more intricate the seal, the more status the owner had, and most likely this was in part due to the fact that it was more difficult to forge. So, the owner of such a seal very likely enjoyed a nice status dividend. Of course, the person himself was shown a lot of respect and deference in face-to-face encounters, but because of the seal, his representatives could enjoy some form of authority hundreds of miles away from the home base. And since Minos was a maritime civilization, this probably was quite a typical occurrence. Now, here's the question: this seal stone was made hundreds of years before the Bronze Age collapse. I agree with you that it appears to be qualitatively way above all the other seal stones discovered so far (and most likely those not discovered too, since we have discovered thousands of inprints as well, and a spectacular inprint would have been publicized). So the question is: why didn't the craftsman who made this seal, or his disciples, or some other craftsmen not create similar sealstones during the next few centuries? And maybe I'm allowed to engage in some wild speculation here. The owner of the seal, well aware of the immense advantages he enjoyed because of its uniqueness, was most likely also aware that if more such seals were to flood the market, his comparative status would diminish. So, he had all the reasons to make sure this didn't happen. Now, most cultures have some type of myth of the master artisan being killed or imprisoned by his patron, but the first and most well known such myth is the one of Daedalus, who worked for ... king Minos. Is it possible that the creator of the Pylos Combat Agate suffered the fate of Daedalus?