5 ms·

What do you think the major drawbacks are? Speed would be the top of my list, but most projects to not need anything more than what python can currently pump ou

What do you think the major drawbacks are? Speed would be the top of my list, but most projects to not need anything more than what python can currently pump out.

forrestthewoods 5y ago
Basically everything. If I had to pick two things I hate the most it would be dynamic typing and Python's deployment story. I wrote a somewhat tongue-in-cheek rant blog post. https://www.forrestthewoods.com/blog/things-i-like-about-python/ https://www.forrestthewoods.com/blog/things-i-like-about-pyt...
Tsarbomb 5y ago
Aside from speed, one thing that really eats at me is that it makes any sort of functional programming overly verbose, unfun, and just not very idiomatic. Also the the vast majority of python programmers simply don't understand the best practices in their own ecosystem. I was recently writing code using Reactor/RxJava in Java 11 w/ Lombok. I don't think I've ever been so productive or lead a team as productive as when we were going ham on the functional/reactive Java. Now that I'm back in Python land, I am constantly frustrate on a daily basis with both the language and the runtime at every turn. Even with the asyncio we are working on, it feels like the absolute minimum viable product when compared to the java, node, or rust I have done. There are some fantastic python enhancements that bridge some of the gaps like PEP 484 (Type Hints) and PEP 517 (holy crap an actual build systems that are not dogcrap) but it feels like the python community does not care.
- jimsimmons 5y ago
  Never seen Python described as verbose. Rx has libraries in Python libraries. If you think scientific programmers give a damn about build systems you don’t know what you’re talking about
dnautics 5y ago
You can't dismiss the fact that hiring python is hard. You think you're getting a good programmer, because they know all the leetcode tricks, but that person turns out to be a dud.
- edgyquant 5y ago
  Can you elaborate? If someone can pump out leet code I would assume they would be a half decent programmer and it would just take some time for them to be as productive as you wanted. Then again I’m mostly self taught and never done leet code and I still manage to be a good programmer according to those I’ve worked with
  - dnautics 5y ago
    I personally think that leetcode-interview-passers that I have had to work with do poorly with actually useful tasks like, writing organized code, writing tests, documenting, etc.
    - edgyquant 5y ago
      Probably but those are things they can pick up on the job pretty quick, while it’s a lot harder to teach leet code style problem solving while solving actual business problems.
      - dnautics 5y ago
        Maybe you have a different experience, but none of the actual business problems I deal with are leet-code style. Then again, I have recently stopped calling myself a software developer (and have long since stopped calling myself a software engineer) in favor of the more accurate "software plumber". But I imagine, even coding tasks that require algorithmic knowledge and insight, are benefitted from well-organized and well-designed code. Doing that correctly is often a matter of insight and judgement, and I think often those are not "easily learned".
- jreese 5y ago

What do you think the major drawbacks are? Speed would be the top of my list, but most projects to not need anything more than what python can currently pump out.

forrestthewoods 5y ago

Basically everything. If I had to pick two things I hate the most it would be dynamic typing and Python's deployment story. I wrote a somewhat tongue-in-cheek rant blog post. https://www.forrestthewoods.com/blog/things-i-like-about-python/ https://www.forrestthewoods.com/blog/things-i-like-about-pyt...

Tsarbomb 5y ago

Aside from speed, one thing that really eats at me is that it makes any sort of functional programming overly verbose, unfun, and just not very idiomatic. Also the the vast majority of python programmers simply don't understand the best practices in their own ecosystem. I was recently writing code using Reactor/RxJava in Java 11 w/ Lombok. I don't think I've ever been so productive or lead a team as productive as when we were going ham on the functional/reactive Java. Now that I'm back in Python land, I am constantly frustrate on a daily basis with both the language and the runtime at every turn. Even with the asyncio we are working on, it feels like the absolute minimum viable product when compared to the java, node, or rust I have done. There are some fantastic python enhancements that bridge some of the gaps like PEP 484 (Type Hints) and PEP 517 (holy crap an actual build systems that are not dogcrap) but it feels like the python community does not care.

jimsimmons 5y ago
Never seen Python described as verbose. Rx has libraries in Python libraries. If you think scientific programmers give a damn about build systems you don’t know what you’re talking about

dnautics 5y ago

You can't dismiss the fact that hiring python is hard. You think you're getting a good programmer, because they know all the leetcode tricks, but that person turns out to be a dud.

edgyquant 5y ago
Can you elaborate? If someone can pump out leet code I would assume they would be a half decent programmer and it would just take some time for them to be as productive as you wanted. Then again I’m mostly self taught and never done leet code and I still manage to be a good programmer according to those I’ve worked with
- dnautics 5y ago
  I personally think that leetcode-interview-passers that I have had to work with do poorly with actually useful tasks like, writing organized code, writing tests, documenting, etc.
  - edgyquant 5y ago
    Probably but those are things they can pick up on the job pretty quick, while it’s a lot harder to teach leet code style problem solving while solving actual business problems.
    - dnautics 5y ago
      Maybe you have a different experience, but none of the actual business problems I deal with are leet-code style. Then again, I have recently stopped calling myself a software developer (and have long since stopped calling myself a software engineer) in favor of the more accurate "software plumber". But I imagine, even coding tasks that require algorithmic knowledge and insight, are benefitted from well-organized and well-designed code. Doing that correctly is often a matter of insight and judgement, and I think often those are not "easily learned".
jreese 5y ago