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From the article: >A travel ban is not an evidence-based solution unless you stop all travel from every country. Okay, why not do that? China's done it. Vietn

From the article: >A travel ban is not an evidence-based solution unless you stop all travel from every country. Okay, why not do that? China's done it. Vietnam, Australia and New Zealand require a week+ quarantine for international travelers. It obviously works: it stopped two Omicron carriers at the border in Hong Kong. Why not do that? If COVID-19 is such a serious threat that it requires shutting down all schools for more than a year, why not take the comparatively minor step of halting or drastically limiting international travel?

tenuousemphasis 5y ago
Schools were closed at the local and state levels. Closing the borders requires action at a federal level. That seems incredibly unlikely to happen.
the8472 5y ago
From the outside it looks like a lot of policies are reactive, they aim at where the target was days before, not where it is now or where we'll anticipate it might be by the time policies go into effect. We already know we're acting on imcomplete, time-delayed information, i.e. we will only learn a few days later when the variant arrives in another country. So we have to compensate for that either by shutting everything down or by introducing artificial delays. And that's assuming all countries are testing and reporting the spread early. Some countries might lack coverage and thus act as dark hubs.
sanedigital 5y ago
Your last paragraph is begging the question: closing schools wasn’t required and was likely a major mistake. Closing borders just heaps more ineffective but costly action into the pile.
righttoolforjob 5y ago
1) It's too late (for this variant). So you can't act reactively. 2) When would you ever open then (since you need a proactive approach)? 3) How would trade look? I can't think of a single way of halting a contagious virus between countries that wouldn't completely shut us down as a race. The cost to humanity would be beyond imagination. Perhaps on the order of 100x-1000x that of corona.
- legolas2412 5y ago
  Maybe you imagination is limited. China has done this precisely. They have kept the virus in check while limiting international travel and while being the world's factory. You open up when enough of your population is vaccinated. I wonder why you feel that it is fine to say "too late" for this measure that obviously works. Do you also say too late to lockdowns, vaccine mandates, restaurant and schools closures, and mask requirements. If you don't, then maybe spend a moment thinking if your epidemic response is guided by your political allegiances
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    China is an authoritarian state that can almost anything it wants to do to limit the freedoms of its population. That same tactic won't work in (real) democratic countries, especially after 2 years of lockdowns.
    - pbaka 5y ago
      Australia, Austria, Germany, Netherlands entered the chat.
    - sbierwagen 5y ago
      New Zealand has a 14 day quarantine for international travelers: https://www.immigration.govt.nz/about-us/covid-19/border-closures-and-exceptions/entry-to-new-zealand/border-entry-requirements https://www.immigration.govt.nz/about-us/covid-19/border-clo... Is New Zealand an authoritarian state?
      - stjohnswarts 5y ago
        A 14 day quarantine isn't a lockdown, even NZ is getting sloppy with virus measures. If the people there get tired of it there is nothing the government can do to stop them. In China you will get quarantined forcefully by the police state, and if you don't like it you can go to prison or get disappeared if you raise to big of a commotion.
      - 5y ago
neither_color 5y ago
In America it would disproportionately affect working class immigrants who get a measly two weeks a year to see their families. We do not have and shouldn't have a zero covid goal and negative tests + vaccine checks are a reasonable enough. AU/NZ are outliers, but there are countries with strict border policies like them but that failed to contain their spread, such as Australia's neighbor Indonesia. That suggests there's more to the story that requires further study. Australia + NZ are not good case studies for Europe + NA to follow because they are rich islands with limited ports of entry that get less international air traffic in a year than busy European or NA airports get in a month. Furthermore I don't see what the major quality of life improvements for Aussies/Kiwis has been as a result of their overly strict policies. They have a statistic they can be proud of but at what cost?

tenuousemphasis 5y ago

Schools were closed at the local and state levels. Closing the borders requires action at a federal level. That seems incredibly unlikely to happen.

the8472 5y ago

From the outside it looks like a lot of policies are reactive, they aim at where the target was days before, not where it is now or where we'll anticipate it might be by the time policies go into effect. We already know we're acting on imcomplete, time-delayed information, i.e. we will only learn a few days later when the variant arrives in another country. So we have to compensate for that either by shutting everything down or by introducing artificial delays. And that's assuming all countries are testing and reporting the spread early. Some countries might lack coverage and thus act as dark hubs.

sanedigital 5y ago

Your last paragraph is begging the question: closing schools wasn’t required and was likely a major mistake. Closing borders just heaps more ineffective but costly action into the pile.

righttoolforjob 5y ago

1) It's too late (for this variant). So you can't act reactively. 2) When would you ever open then (since you need a proactive approach)? 3) How would trade look? I can't think of a single way of halting a contagious virus between countries that wouldn't completely shut us down as a race. The cost to humanity would be beyond imagination. Perhaps on the order of 100x-1000x that of corona.

legolas2412 5y ago
Maybe you imagination is limited. China has done this precisely. They have kept the virus in check while limiting international travel and while being the world's factory. You open up when enough of your population is vaccinated. I wonder why you feel that it is fine to say "too late" for this measure that obviously works. Do you also say too late to lockdowns, vaccine mandates, restaurant and schools closures, and mask requirements. If you don't, then maybe spend a moment thinking if your epidemic response is guided by your political allegiances
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  China is an authoritarian state that can almost anything it wants to do to limit the freedoms of its population. That same tactic won't work in (real) democratic countries, especially after 2 years of lockdowns.
  - pbaka 5y ago
    Australia, Austria, Germany, Netherlands entered the chat.
  - sbierwagen 5y ago
    New Zealand has a 14 day quarantine for international travelers: https://www.immigration.govt.nz/about-us/covid-19/border-closures-and-exceptions/entry-to-new-zealand/border-entry-requirements https://www.immigration.govt.nz/about-us/covid-19/border-clo... Is New Zealand an authoritarian state?
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      A 14 day quarantine isn't a lockdown, even NZ is getting sloppy with virus measures. If the people there get tired of it there is nothing the government can do to stop them. In China you will get quarantined forcefully by the police state, and if you don't like it you can go to prison or get disappeared if you raise to big of a commotion.
    - 5y ago

neither_color 5y ago

In America it would disproportionately affect working class immigrants who get a measly two weeks a year to see their families. We do not have and shouldn't have a zero covid goal and negative tests + vaccine checks are a reasonable enough. AU/NZ are outliers, but there are countries with strict border policies like them but that failed to contain their spread, such as Australia's neighbor Indonesia. That suggests there's more to the story that requires further study. Australia + NZ are not good case studies for Europe + NA to follow because they are rich islands with limited ports of entry that get less international air traffic in a year than busy European or NA airports get in a month. Furthermore I don't see what the major quality of life improvements for Aussies/Kiwis has been as a result of their overly strict policies. They have a statistic they can be proud of but at what cost?