7 ms·

Remote Work Is Failing Young Employees

36 points by amrrs 5y ago

bob331 5y ago
stop sharing the garbage NYT. No one believes their crap anymore
wyrm 5y ago
That was a really long way to say "Lots of people still use work as their only social engagement." and "Lots of people can't form a coherent thought long enough to write an email."
- ahartmetz 5y ago
  I suspect that it's easier to throw together a NY Times article than to write a completely coherent e-mail. /s
  - bloodyplonker22 5y ago
    The NY Times has really gone downhill when compared to 20-30 years ago.
    - swiley 5y ago
      Don't forget, this is the same newspaper that mocked Robert Goddard for wanting to go to other planets because "rockets don't work in space."
  - fivea 5y ago
    > I suspect that it's easier to throw together a NY Times article than to write a completely coherent e-mail. /s You're not refuting OP's point though. The article includes the following quote: > “I was shocked at how all the skills I had learned on how to navigate this type of environment in person evaporated remotely,” Kiersten said. And also: > “If I was sitting next to my manager, I could just have a quick chat and move on,” he said. “But I’m much less likely to Slack my manager and ask something because I don’t know what they’re up to at the moment. The amount of on-the-job learning has reduced dramatically.” So the author managed to find the two 20 year olds who struggle with online communication and it's async nature. It seems clear that the OP makes a good point.
- dang 5y ago
  "Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
gravypod 5y ago
Is there anyone who believes this on HN? If so, I'd love to have a discussion about why you feel this is the case. I'm young (24) and am performing very well in the workplace. I'm actually much more productive when remote than when I go to an office and waste a bunch of time on commuting. A lot of this "people need to socialize" stuff feels very patronizing to me. I think socializing with coworkers used to be seen as a risky thing to do, now it's encouraged. I don't like the idea of building my entire friend group, or a majority of it, around who I work with.
- missedthecue 5y ago
  I'm young. Remote work is a lot more convenient for me, but it is essentially impossible to build meaningful relationships when all your coworkers are nothing more than a Slack pfp. And being unable to build meaningful relationships makes it harder to grow a career.
  - sjg007 5y ago
    Start having 1:1 zoom calls.
  - gravypod 5y ago
    > is essentially impossible to build meaningful relationships when all your coworkers are nothing more than a Slack pfp I grew up on irc, ventrilo, teamspeak, and now discord. Some of my best friends are just usernames (not even profile pics)! It is possible to build long standing relationships with people just through text and voice chat, let alone video. > And being unable to build meaningful relationships makes it harder to grow a career. Harder or unfamiliar? No generation has had remote as an available option as ours has. In the same way we say "X is harder than Y" in technology when really we mean "I have used X but not Y" it might just be something we need to attempt.
    - postalrat 5y ago
      Someone who is 24 grew up on irc, ventrilo, and teamspeak? I know people still use irc but figured most kids wouldn't bother with it. You must appreciate the difference between chatting online vs. in person.
FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
This is not just a "remote work" thing. It's simply how people are today -- even in person. It's a cold, transactional world.
imbnwa 5y ago
How about corporations stopped investing in career development failing young employees?
Apocryphon 5y ago
Contrary to the comments here, the article has some solid suggestions and isn’t an attack on remote work: > We asked early career workers what resources they wished they could have had during those early pandemic months, and the responses were full of helpful ideas for any company. Most important, they wanted a clearly delineated mentor who — crucially — was not also their supervisor or in charge of evaluating their performance. One person suggested a dual mentor program that paired new employees with a co-worker in a similar position in the company who could offer advice on more quotidian concerns, as well as a more senior employee who could provide longer-term career advice. And > People wanted opportunities to sit in on calls with senior members of different teams — the equivalent of silently sitting in on an in-person meeting — if only to get a better sense of what others’ jobs entailed. They wanted access to email templates for specific kinds of intra-office and out-of-office outreach. They wanted to know what time was normal to reply to emails. In short, they wanted to be told what they were supposed to be doing at work and how to do it successfully. Even those who admitted that such guidance could quickly become stifling agreed that it was better than flailing around with vague expectations and zero guidance.
- m0zg 5y ago
  > they wanted a clearly delineated mentor They may "want" that, but that's something I never got and I worked on-site for 20 years before I went remote 5 years ago. It's not like dedicated mentorship is common in non-remote work, and it's not like a remote junior employee would be denied mentorship if they ask. Most of my clients have junior employees, and they do reach out for help from time to time, and I encourage that. Nobody knows everything there is to know, not even senior people like me. There's another aspect that's often ignored. Mentoring others just creates drag on your own career in most companies. It is not beneficial to the mentor at all. Nor is hosting an intern. So the smarter potential mentors avoid it, and you don't want to be mentored by the dumber ones anyway.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  That's the real definition of inclusivity.
- pg_1234 5y ago
Wiseacre 5y ago
A better title: the cut throat lifestyle of needing to plan our (social) lives around work is failing mostly everyone.
penjelly 5y ago
on the job learning and mentorship havent stopped. Some people work very hard to ensure team culture improves during times like these. If mentorship isnt happening, discuss with your team lead or manager and push for more. I agree that some types of employees have started neglecting duties because "wfh i do what i want" but the rest of us are working/helping others just as much as before, if not more.

36 points by amrrs 5y ago

stop sharing the garbage NYT. No one believes their crap anymore

wyrm 5y ago

That was a really long way to say "Lots of people still use work as their only social engagement." and "Lots of people can't form a coherent thought long enough to write an email."

ahartmetz 5y ago
I suspect that it's easier to throw together a NY Times article than to write a completely coherent e-mail. /s
- bloodyplonker22 5y ago
  The NY Times has really gone downhill when compared to 20-30 years ago.
  - swiley 5y ago
    Don't forget, this is the same newspaper that mocked Robert Goddard for wanting to go to other planets because "rockets don't work in space."
- fivea 5y ago
  > I suspect that it's easier to throw together a NY Times article than to write a completely coherent e-mail. /s You're not refuting OP's point though. The article includes the following quote: > “I was shocked at how all the skills I had learned on how to navigate this type of environment in person evaporated remotely,” Kiersten said. And also: > “If I was sitting next to my manager, I could just have a quick chat and move on,” he said. “But I’m much less likely to Slack my manager and ask something because I don’t know what they’re up to at the moment. The amount of on-the-job learning has reduced dramatically.” So the author managed to find the two 20 year olds who struggle with online communication and it's async nature. It seems clear that the OP makes a good point.
dang 5y ago
"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

gravypod 5y ago

Is there anyone who believes this on HN? If so, I'd love to have a discussion about why you feel this is the case. I'm young (24) and am performing very well in the workplace. I'm actually much more productive when remote than when I go to an office and waste a bunch of time on commuting. A lot of this "people need to socialize" stuff feels very patronizing to me. I think socializing with coworkers used to be seen as a risky thing to do, now it's encouraged. I don't like the idea of building my entire friend group, or a majority of it, around who I work with.

missedthecue 5y ago
I'm young. Remote work is a lot more convenient for me, but it is essentially impossible to build meaningful relationships when all your coworkers are nothing more than a Slack pfp. And being unable to build meaningful relationships makes it harder to grow a career.
- sjg007 5y ago
  Start having 1:1 zoom calls.
- gravypod 5y ago
  > is essentially impossible to build meaningful relationships when all your coworkers are nothing more than a Slack pfp I grew up on irc, ventrilo, teamspeak, and now discord. Some of my best friends are just usernames (not even profile pics)! It is possible to build long standing relationships with people just through text and voice chat, let alone video. > And being unable to build meaningful relationships makes it harder to grow a career. Harder or unfamiliar? No generation has had remote as an available option as ours has. In the same way we say "X is harder than Y" in technology when really we mean "I have used X but not Y" it might just be something we need to attempt.
  - postalrat 5y ago
    Someone who is 24 grew up on irc, ventrilo, and teamspeak? I know people still use irc but figured most kids wouldn't bother with it. You must appreciate the difference between chatting online vs. in person.

FooBarBizBazz 5y ago

This is not just a "remote work" thing. It's simply how people are today -- even in person. It's a cold, transactional world.

imbnwa 5y ago

How about corporations stopped investing in career development failing young employees?

Apocryphon 5y ago

Contrary to the comments here, the article has some solid suggestions and isn’t an attack on remote work: > We asked early career workers what resources they wished they could have had during those early pandemic months, and the responses were full of helpful ideas for any company. Most important, they wanted a clearly delineated mentor who — crucially — was not also their supervisor or in charge of evaluating their performance. One person suggested a dual mentor program that paired new employees with a co-worker in a similar position in the company who could offer advice on more quotidian concerns, as well as a more senior employee who could provide longer-term career advice. And > People wanted opportunities to sit in on calls with senior members of different teams — the equivalent of silently sitting in on an in-person meeting — if only to get a better sense of what others’ jobs entailed. They wanted access to email templates for specific kinds of intra-office and out-of-office outreach. They wanted to know what time was normal to reply to emails. In short, they wanted to be told what they were supposed to be doing at work and how to do it successfully. Even those who admitted that such guidance could quickly become stifling agreed that it was better than flailing around with vague expectations and zero guidance.

m0zg 5y ago
> they wanted a clearly delineated mentor They may "want" that, but that's something I never got and I worked on-site for 20 years before I went remote 5 years ago. It's not like dedicated mentorship is common in non-remote work, and it's not like a remote junior employee would be denied mentorship if they ask. Most of my clients have junior employees, and they do reach out for help from time to time, and I encourage that. Nobody knows everything there is to know, not even senior people like me. There's another aspect that's often ignored. Mentoring others just creates drag on your own career in most companies. It is not beneficial to the mentor at all. Nor is hosting an intern. So the smarter potential mentors avoid it, and you don't want to be mentored by the dumber ones anyway.
908B64B197 5y ago
That's the real definition of inclusivity.
pg_1234 5y ago

Wiseacre 5y ago

A better title: the cut throat lifestyle of needing to plan our (social) lives around work is failing mostly everyone.

penjelly 5y ago

on the job learning and mentorship havent stopped. Some people work very hard to ensure team culture improves during times like these. If mentorship isnt happening, discuss with your team lead or manager and push for more. I agree that some types of employees have started neglecting duties because "wfh i do what i want" but the rest of us are working/helping others just as much as before, if not more.