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That's a ridiculous narrative for covid where vaccinated people are marginally less contagious than unvaccinated people. The main benefit of the covid vaccine

That's a ridiculous narrative for covid where vaccinated people are marginally less contagious than unvaccinated people. The main benefit of the covid vaccine is reducing symptoms when you get covid and reducing hospitalisations. If you are worried about getting covid, vaccinate yourself. That's it, you don't need anyone else to be vaccinated.

threeseed 5y ago
"immunisation with either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine reduced the chance of onward virus transmission by 40–60%" [1] That is not marginally less and which is why people should be vaccinated. Also unvaccinated people place significant strain on the hospital system preventing elective surgery and increasing my costs as a taxpayer. [1] https://khub.net/documents/135939561/390853656/Impact+of+vaccination+on+household+transmission+of+SARS-COV-2+in+England.pdf/35bf4bb1-6ade-d3eb-a39e-9c9b25a8122a?t=1619601878136 https://khub.net/documents/135939561/390853656/Impact+of+vac...
- _dain_ 5y ago
  > "immunisation with either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine reduced the chance of onward virus transmission by 40–60%" [1] so why are there still soaring case rates in the countries with the most vaccines? I'll trust my lying eyes, thank you. it's honestly insulting that you can post some pissant "study" like this and expect to be taken seriously when anyone can just look at the case rates and vax rates by country and see that it's obviously wrong.
  - threeseed 5y ago
    a) There are still soaring case rates because vaccination rates are not 100% and you have waning immunity. People who are dying are the ones who are unvaccinated. But you will still get breakthrough cases which nobody has ever denied will happen. b) If you some independent study which proves your statement that vaccines only "marginally" affect transmission then please post it.
    - _dain_ 5y ago
      https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/ukhsa-vaccine-surveillance-week-46 https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/ukhsa-vaccine-surveillance-... case rates are as high or higher among the vaxxed in every age group that matters. as for 100% vaxx rates as our way into the promised land: a) lmao and b) this is unfalsifiable. we could get up to 99.9% vaxx rates and corona fanatics like you would still say it's the intransigent 0.01% holdout are keeping us from crossing the finish line. you are just like every other ideological zealot who dismisses the empirical failures of their ideas (nazism, communism, etc) by saying all those real life examples weren't really the True Ism, and that we would have immanentized the eschaton already if not for all those pesky people with their free will. not to mention there are stable wild animal reservoirs of the virus and those are never going away. again, you haven't made any coherent argument as to why I can't just look at the case rates by country and compare them to vaxx rates and draw the obvious conclusion. am I not allowed to say the sky is blue without a peer reviewed study?
  - wott 5y ago
    > so why are there still soaring case rates in the countries with the most vaccines? Vaccinated people are not submitted to the same constraints (such as mandatory tests for accessing this and that) so carry the virus in more places favourable for transmission. They also don't worry as much about getting the virus (at the same time rightfully so and not rightfully so), so they give up on taking the precautions they took the previous year, and they also do not take a test when symptoms arise but remain light. All this unfortunately compensate for the fact that, individually, they are less subjected to spreading the virus. Over here, when a vaccinated person tests positive, their pass is not even revoked :-/ Also, in order to promote vaccination, tests which were free have been made paying for non-vaccinated people; so as a perverse result, non-vaccinated people now test less, thus spread more too. Basically, the current attitude (both individual and official) seem to imply that it does not matter any more to care about spreading the virus, so long as you are relatively/fairly protected against the consequences. I don't think this is going to turn well, but...
    - _dain_ 5y ago
      >Vaccinated people are not submitted to the same constraints (such as mandatory tests for accessing this and that) so carry the virus in more places favourable for transmission. They also don't worry as much about getting the virus (at the same time rightfully so and not rightfully so), so they give up on taking the precautions they took the previous year, and they also do not take a test when symptoms arise but remain light. All this unfortunately compensate for the fact that, individually, they are less subjected to spreading the virus. this is complete conjecture and moreover the conditions vary by place. for my part (in england) there are no meaningful restrictions on anyone whatsoever, so this can't be the explanation. I've also heard completely opposing theories, that the _un_vaccinated aren't worried about getting the virus so they don't get tested. you can spin any theory you want. nobody knows shit. (by the way, england currently has the lowest case rates out of the four UK countries + ROI, despite those other jurisdictions having coronapass regimes of varying strictness)
barbazoo 5y ago
> That's a ridiculous narrative for covid where vaccinated people are marginally less contagious than unvaccinated people. Almost two years in and people still don't understand that there is a difference in severity of an infection. When vaccinated, you are much less likely to develop severe symptoms and very unlikely to have to get hospitalized.
- spurgu 5y ago
  I don't know what you're after but that's literally what the sentence after the one you're quoting is saying.
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    Not after anything. I think I just stopped reading before that.
Jenda_ 5y ago
> If you are worried about getting covid, vaccinate yourself. That's it, you don't need anyone else to be vaccinated. What if I'm worried about healthcare system collapse by surge of unvaccinated people, resulting in disruption of non-covid-related medical care? This disruption can even last after the epidemic ends, as the medical staff is burning out and quitting. (this is happening right now in .cz)
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  Privatise the health system so that it can be more flexible and provide treatments in a more elastic manner (not necessarily in big expensive hospitals). Deregulate until things are sane if you live in the USA were the government and insurance companies propped up the prices ridiculously. I'm sure that if you prevent non-vaccinated people not to go to public hospital, they will gladly comply. But I don't think covid is a battle we will win with vaccines, the virus mutates fast and the effectiveness drops pretty fast. As of the latest figures I'm reading in the newspapers, 40% of people in ICU because of Covid are vaccinated, 60% are not. Hopefully some medication will come up to cure the symptoms, like remdesivir.

threeseed 5y ago

"immunisation with either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine reduced the chance of onward virus transmission by 40–60%" [1] That is not marginally less and which is why people should be vaccinated. Also unvaccinated people place significant strain on the hospital system preventing elective surgery and increasing my costs as a taxpayer. [1] https://khub.net/documents/135939561/390853656/Impact+of+vaccination+on+household+transmission+of+SARS-COV-2+in+England.pdf/35bf4bb1-6ade-d3eb-a39e-9c9b25a8122a?t=1619601878136 https://khub.net/documents/135939561/390853656/Impact+of+vac...

_dain_ 5y ago
> "immunisation with either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine reduced the chance of onward virus transmission by 40–60%" [1] so why are there still soaring case rates in the countries with the most vaccines? I'll trust my lying eyes, thank you. it's honestly insulting that you can post some pissant "study" like this and expect to be taken seriously when anyone can just look at the case rates and vax rates by country and see that it's obviously wrong.
- threeseed 5y ago
  a) There are still soaring case rates because vaccination rates are not 100% and you have waning immunity. People who are dying are the ones who are unvaccinated. But you will still get breakthrough cases which nobody has ever denied will happen. b) If you some independent study which proves your statement that vaccines only "marginally" affect transmission then please post it.
  - _dain_ 5y ago
    https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/ukhsa-vaccine-surveillance-week-46 https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/ukhsa-vaccine-surveillance-... case rates are as high or higher among the vaxxed in every age group that matters. as for 100% vaxx rates as our way into the promised land: a) lmao and b) this is unfalsifiable. we could get up to 99.9% vaxx rates and corona fanatics like you would still say it's the intransigent 0.01% holdout are keeping us from crossing the finish line. you are just like every other ideological zealot who dismisses the empirical failures of their ideas (nazism, communism, etc) by saying all those real life examples weren't really the True Ism, and that we would have immanentized the eschaton already if not for all those pesky people with their free will. not to mention there are stable wild animal reservoirs of the virus and those are never going away. again, you haven't made any coherent argument as to why I can't just look at the case rates by country and compare them to vaxx rates and draw the obvious conclusion. am I not allowed to say the sky is blue without a peer reviewed study?
- wott 5y ago
  > so why are there still soaring case rates in the countries with the most vaccines? Vaccinated people are not submitted to the same constraints (such as mandatory tests for accessing this and that) so carry the virus in more places favourable for transmission. They also don't worry as much about getting the virus (at the same time rightfully so and not rightfully so), so they give up on taking the precautions they took the previous year, and they also do not take a test when symptoms arise but remain light. All this unfortunately compensate for the fact that, individually, they are less subjected to spreading the virus. Over here, when a vaccinated person tests positive, their pass is not even revoked :-/ Also, in order to promote vaccination, tests which were free have been made paying for non-vaccinated people; so as a perverse result, non-vaccinated people now test less, thus spread more too. Basically, the current attitude (both individual and official) seem to imply that it does not matter any more to care about spreading the virus, so long as you are relatively/fairly protected against the consequences. I don't think this is going to turn well, but...
  - _dain_ 5y ago
    >Vaccinated people are not submitted to the same constraints (such as mandatory tests for accessing this and that) so carry the virus in more places favourable for transmission. They also don't worry as much about getting the virus (at the same time rightfully so and not rightfully so), so they give up on taking the precautions they took the previous year, and they also do not take a test when symptoms arise but remain light. All this unfortunately compensate for the fact that, individually, they are less subjected to spreading the virus. this is complete conjecture and moreover the conditions vary by place. for my part (in england) there are no meaningful restrictions on anyone whatsoever, so this can't be the explanation. I've also heard completely opposing theories, that the _un_vaccinated aren't worried about getting the virus so they don't get tested. you can spin any theory you want. nobody knows shit. (by the way, england currently has the lowest case rates out of the four UK countries + ROI, despite those other jurisdictions having coronapass regimes of varying strictness)

barbazoo 5y ago

> That's a ridiculous narrative for covid where vaccinated people are marginally less contagious than unvaccinated people. Almost two years in and people still don't understand that there is a difference in severity of an infection. When vaccinated, you are much less likely to develop severe symptoms and very unlikely to have to get hospitalized.

spurgu 5y ago
I don't know what you're after but that's literally what the sentence after the one you're quoting is saying.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  Not after anything. I think I just stopped reading before that.

Jenda_ 5y ago

> If you are worried about getting covid, vaccinate yourself. That's it, you don't need anyone else to be vaccinated. What if I'm worried about healthcare system collapse by surge of unvaccinated people, resulting in disruption of non-covid-related medical care? This disruption can even last after the epidemic ends, as the medical staff is burning out and quitting. (this is happening right now in .cz)

jokethrowaway 5y ago
Privatise the health system so that it can be more flexible and provide treatments in a more elastic manner (not necessarily in big expensive hospitals). Deregulate until things are sane if you live in the USA were the government and insurance companies propped up the prices ridiculously. I'm sure that if you prevent non-vaccinated people not to go to public hospital, they will gladly comply. But I don't think covid is a battle we will win with vaccines, the virus mutates fast and the effectiveness drops pretty fast. As of the latest figures I'm reading in the newspapers, 40% of people in ICU because of Covid are vaccinated, 60% are not. Hopefully some medication will come up to cure the symptoms, like remdesivir.