7 ms·

My current take (not a virologist, doctor): At this point, if you are not immunocompromised and you have the first vaccination and a booster. You should be abl

by xyst 5y ago

My current take (not a virologist, doctor): At this point, if you are not immunocompromised and you have the first vaccination and a booster. You should be able to easily recover regardless of the mutation(s). The virus would need to completely diverge from SARS-CoV-2 in order to fully defeat the countermeasures of the current vaccinations.

hh3k0 5y ago
Strikes me as unnecessarily early to make such a claim.
- Animats 5y ago
  Testing of vaccines against this new variant is already starting.[1] First results in 2 weeks. Pfizer says that if they have to generate a new vaccine for this variant, it will take about 100 days.[2] That's the great thing about this mRNA vaccine technology - given the gene sequence of a virus, a vaccine can be designed. The original Moderna vaccine was designed in two days. [1] https://www.newsweek.com/omicron-variant-prompts-concerns-about-vaccine-efficacy-scientists-race-test-strain-1653637 https://www.newsweek.com/omicron-variant-prompts-concerns-ab... [2] https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/pfizer-release-statement-on-potential-vaccine-escape-variant-as-first-case-emerges-in-europe/ar-AARaE6S https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/pfizer-release-statemen...
  - hh3k0 5y ago
    Did you reply to the wrong comment?
  - ericdodges 5y ago
    Delta has been in the wild for some time and boosters for it are still being tested. I’d take such claims with a grain of salt. If this variant has significant immune evasion from prior infection or vaccination, 100 days is a lot of time to wreak havoc. There are also myriad logistical problems if we have to boost everyone again that will drag things out.
  - Lionga 5y ago
    100 days + XXX days for the new approval of the vaccine.
    - Animats 5y ago
      Yes. Although variations on the vaccine require less approval than a totally new one. This process takes place every year for flu vaccines.
      - epmaybe 5y ago
        Never for mRNA vaccines though - will be interesting to see how the administration/FDA handles this
        lobocinza 5y ago
        While I know nothing about vaccine development I guess that a "release often in small batches" might be a better mode than doing mass clinical trials which are slow and costly. As far as I know it's possible from a manufacturing standpoint as the updates would mostly be changes in mRNA code. I think people not dying from being properly immunized outweigh the risk of a small number of people facing side effects if done properly.
    - dillondoyle 5y ago
      Close to mid terms + if it becomes an actual big body count/hospital overflow in the US I'd bank on political pressure to approve fast.
- funtimes323 5y ago
  Strikes me that you need to go stroke one out on /r/horsesex.
Lionga 5y ago
Any reasoning/source or this is just what you wish for / want to believe?
- maaaaattttt 5y ago
  Not OP but I remember reading that with the way the vaccine works, as long as it’s classified as a variant you should be covered. If you’re not covered anymore (assuming the full vaccination is not outdated) that means it’s most likely a new virus rather than a new variant. I can’t find a proper link to quote tough, so you can assume this is totally wrong. Nevertheless, the logic behind it makes sense (to me at least).
  - Lionga 5y ago
    Quick research tells me that Biontech does need two weeks to check if the vaccine works against the new variant [1], so clearly it does NOT need to be a new virus for the vaccine to become useless. [1] https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending/biontech-will-know-soon-if-tis-covid-19-vaccine-works-against-new-coronavirus-variant-jj-testing/EZSNEYYHLBCOBL43G3JQ2O2NV4/ https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending/biontech-will-kno...
    - ianai 5y ago
      True but the mRNAs have held up well against every variant to this point. It's not even something I'm comfortable banking on against this new variant, but we're far from concluding this is a problem, too. Edit-I'm thinking it's like 66% against this VOC from escaping the vaccines and 33% pro, very roughly.
sp332 5y ago
This does have quite a few mutations, including several that are pretty rare. https://github.com/cov-lineages/pango-designation/issues/343 https://github.com/cov-lineages/pango-designation/issues/343
- op00to 5y ago
  Are people getting sicker with it?
  - tastroder 5y ago
    We don't know yet, the number of cases this variant has been confirmed in is far too low at this point. You'll likely get a better idea of what that mix of mutations means in terms of clinical aspects and transmissions in a few weeks, most of the current takes are educated guesses based on what this variant has in common with the previous ones.
  - bmakdbd 5y ago
    > However, Dr Angelique Coetzee, chair of the South African Medical Association and a practising GP based in Pretoria, said it was “premature” to make predictions of a health crisis. “It’s all speculation at this stage. It may be it’s highly transmissible, but so far the cases we are seeing are extremely mild,” she said. “Maybe two weeks from now I will have a different opinion, but this is what we are seeing. So are we seriously worried? No. We are concerned and we watch what’s happening. But for now we’re saying, ‘OK: there’s a whole hype out there. [We’re] not sure why.’” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/26/south-africa-b11529-covid-variant-vaccination https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/26/south-africa-b...
    - throwawayboise 5y ago
      "the cases we are seeing are extremely mild" So, like most COVID infections?
      - setpatchaddress 5y ago
reindeer76 5y ago
Narrowness of immune response: >The mRNA and viral vector vaccines induced ONLY spike protein antibodies in the inoculated test subjects >In comparison, whole inactivated virus and natural infection induce antibodies to many parts of the virus Original antigenic sin: >Subjects injected with the old formulations have locked their immune response to only a few antibodies >Any new formulation of the injection will amplify those antibodies rather than inducing new ones Antibody-dependent enhancement: >Omicron may have mutated to take advantage of non-neutralising antibodies to the injection spike protein >This would mean that the virus can more easily latch onto the CD147 receptor and enter cells in the vaccinated
- fabian2k 5y ago
  There is zero evidence at all for any antibody-dependent enhancement with the COVID vaccines so far. The mRNA vaccines also induce the cell-mediated immunity, unlike e.g. subunit vaccines that only consists of a protein. The cell-based response is fundamentally different and not based on the 3D structure of the virus protein like the antibody response. So mutation that would evade the antibody response would not automatically evade the cell-based response as well. The spike protein is also the most important protein of the virus. And antibodies are mostly useful against surface components of the virus, not so much against stuff that's on the inside. The spike protein performs a critical function, to evade the antibody response it has to do both, change enough to be unrecognizable while still being able to infect cells with a similar efficiency. That's not an easy thing to do.
- brandmeyer 5y ago
  Curious edit history. This pile of garbage originally used "vaxtard", "sin", and "purebloods". You really shouldn't take anything seriously from a source that uses those trigger phrases.
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    Seems to have been copy-pasted from /pol/
  - Eliezer 5y ago
CyanBird 5y ago
> The virus would need to completely diverge from SARS-CoV-2 in order to fully defeat Yeah, you shouldnt be making these claims if you don't have specific background or understanding of what you are talking about All current vaccines target few/couple specific proteins and protein groups on the virus spikes which interact with our cells, if these couple spikes/protein groups change then the vaccines stop being effective, you don't need a complete divergence of the vaccines to stop working as the vaccines don't target the "whole virus" to begin with, just specific parts of it, that was the worry with Delta and is the worry with this new strain
- klaushougesen1 5y ago
  Basically the same reason why we have a new flu vaccine every single year
- AareyBaba 5y ago
  > All current vaccines target few/couple specific proteins and protein groups Since you have the specific background and understanding and know what you are talking about can you explain to us how inactivated virus covid vaccines target specific proteins ? I would expect them to target the whole virus. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covaxin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covaxin [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac
- op00to 5y ago
  Current vaccines target key proteins necessary for attaching to the cell. If the virus stops expressing these proteins, it will be less fit at invading cells.
gfodor 5y ago
Seems like a bad take since we already know the vaccine immunity is reduced with time.

by xyst 5y ago

hh3k0 5y ago

Strikes me as unnecessarily early to make such a claim.

Animats 5y ago
Testing of vaccines against this new variant is already starting.[1] First results in 2 weeks. Pfizer says that if they have to generate a new vaccine for this variant, it will take about 100 days.[2] That's the great thing about this mRNA vaccine technology - given the gene sequence of a virus, a vaccine can be designed. The original Moderna vaccine was designed in two days. [1] https://www.newsweek.com/omicron-variant-prompts-concerns-about-vaccine-efficacy-scientists-race-test-strain-1653637 https://www.newsweek.com/omicron-variant-prompts-concerns-ab... [2] https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/pfizer-release-statement-on-potential-vaccine-escape-variant-as-first-case-emerges-in-europe/ar-AARaE6S https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/pfizer-release-statemen...
- hh3k0 5y ago
  Did you reply to the wrong comment?
- ericdodges 5y ago
  Delta has been in the wild for some time and boosters for it are still being tested. I’d take such claims with a grain of salt. If this variant has significant immune evasion from prior infection or vaccination, 100 days is a lot of time to wreak havoc. There are also myriad logistical problems if we have to boost everyone again that will drag things out.
- Lionga 5y ago
  100 days + XXX days for the new approval of the vaccine.
  - Animats 5y ago
    Yes. Although variations on the vaccine require less approval than a totally new one. This process takes place every year for flu vaccines.
    - epmaybe 5y ago
      Never for mRNA vaccines though - will be interesting to see how the administration/FDA handles this
      - lobocinza 5y ago
        While I know nothing about vaccine development I guess that a "release often in small batches" might be a better mode than doing mass clinical trials which are slow and costly. As far as I know it's possible from a manufacturing standpoint as the updates would mostly be changes in mRNA code. I think people not dying from being properly immunized outweigh the risk of a small number of people facing side effects if done properly.
  - dillondoyle 5y ago
    Close to mid terms + if it becomes an actual big body count/hospital overflow in the US I'd bank on political pressure to approve fast.
funtimes323 5y ago
Strikes me that you need to go stroke one out on /r/horsesex.

Lionga 5y ago

Any reasoning/source or this is just what you wish for / want to believe?

maaaaattttt 5y ago
Not OP but I remember reading that with the way the vaccine works, as long as it’s classified as a variant you should be covered. If you’re not covered anymore (assuming the full vaccination is not outdated) that means it’s most likely a new virus rather than a new variant. I can’t find a proper link to quote tough, so you can assume this is totally wrong. Nevertheless, the logic behind it makes sense (to me at least).
- Lionga 5y ago
  Quick research tells me that Biontech does need two weeks to check if the vaccine works against the new variant [1], so clearly it does NOT need to be a new virus for the vaccine to become useless. [1] https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending/biontech-will-know-soon-if-tis-covid-19-vaccine-works-against-new-coronavirus-variant-jj-testing/EZSNEYYHLBCOBL43G3JQ2O2NV4/ https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending/biontech-will-kno...
  - ianai 5y ago
    True but the mRNAs have held up well against every variant to this point. It's not even something I'm comfortable banking on against this new variant, but we're far from concluding this is a problem, too. Edit-I'm thinking it's like 66% against this VOC from escaping the vaccines and 33% pro, very roughly.

sp332 5y ago

This does have quite a few mutations, including several that are pretty rare. https://github.com/cov-lineages/pango-designation/issues/343 https://github.com/cov-lineages/pango-designation/issues/343

op00to 5y ago
Are people getting sicker with it?
- tastroder 5y ago
  We don't know yet, the number of cases this variant has been confirmed in is far too low at this point. You'll likely get a better idea of what that mix of mutations means in terms of clinical aspects and transmissions in a few weeks, most of the current takes are educated guesses based on what this variant has in common with the previous ones.
- bmakdbd 5y ago
  > However, Dr Angelique Coetzee, chair of the South African Medical Association and a practising GP based in Pretoria, said it was “premature” to make predictions of a health crisis. “It’s all speculation at this stage. It may be it’s highly transmissible, but so far the cases we are seeing are extremely mild,” she said. “Maybe two weeks from now I will have a different opinion, but this is what we are seeing. So are we seriously worried? No. We are concerned and we watch what’s happening. But for now we’re saying, ‘OK: there’s a whole hype out there. [We’re] not sure why.’” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/26/south-africa-b11529-covid-variant-vaccination https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/26/south-africa-b...
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    "the cases we are seeing are extremely mild" So, like most COVID infections?
    - setpatchaddress 5y ago

reindeer76 5y ago

Narrowness of immune response: >The mRNA and viral vector vaccines induced ONLY spike protein antibodies in the inoculated test subjects >In comparison, whole inactivated virus and natural infection induce antibodies to many parts of the virus Original antigenic sin: >Subjects injected with the old formulations have locked their immune response to only a few antibodies >Any new formulation of the injection will amplify those antibodies rather than inducing new ones Antibody-dependent enhancement: >Omicron may have mutated to take advantage of non-neutralising antibodies to the injection spike protein >This would mean that the virus can more easily latch onto the CD147 receptor and enter cells in the vaccinated

fabian2k 5y ago
There is zero evidence at all for any antibody-dependent enhancement with the COVID vaccines so far. The mRNA vaccines also induce the cell-mediated immunity, unlike e.g. subunit vaccines that only consists of a protein. The cell-based response is fundamentally different and not based on the 3D structure of the virus protein like the antibody response. So mutation that would evade the antibody response would not automatically evade the cell-based response as well. The spike protein is also the most important protein of the virus. And antibodies are mostly useful against surface components of the virus, not so much against stuff that's on the inside. The spike protein performs a critical function, to evade the antibody response it has to do both, change enough to be unrecognizable while still being able to infect cells with a similar efficiency. That's not an easy thing to do.
brandmeyer 5y ago
Curious edit history. This pile of garbage originally used "vaxtard", "sin", and "purebloods". You really shouldn't take anything seriously from a source that uses those trigger phrases.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  Seems to have been copy-pasted from /pol/
- Eliezer 5y ago

CyanBird 5y ago

> The virus would need to completely diverge from SARS-CoV-2 in order to fully defeat Yeah, you shouldnt be making these claims if you don't have specific background or understanding of what you are talking about All current vaccines target few/couple specific proteins and protein groups on the virus spikes which interact with our cells, if these couple spikes/protein groups change then the vaccines stop being effective, you don't need a complete divergence of the vaccines to stop working as the vaccines don't target the "whole virus" to begin with, just specific parts of it, that was the worry with Delta and is the worry with this new strain

klaushougesen1 5y ago
Basically the same reason why we have a new flu vaccine every single year
AareyBaba 5y ago
> All current vaccines target few/couple specific proteins and protein groups Since you have the specific background and understanding and know what you are talking about can you explain to us how inactivated virus covid vaccines target specific proteins ? I would expect them to target the whole virus. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covaxin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covaxin [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac
op00to 5y ago
Current vaccines target key proteins necessary for attaching to the cell. If the virus stops expressing these proteins, it will be less fit at invading cells.

gfodor 5y ago

Seems like a bad take since we already know the vaccine immunity is reduced with time.