6 ms·

I want to see a manufacturer do one of these without poverty spec RAM. Same with disc, the same options you get on an iPhone 256, 512, 1Tb. Then you have a nic

I want to see a manufacturer do one of these without poverty spec RAM. Same with disc, the same options you get on an iPhone 256, 512, 1Tb. Then you have a nice ARM laptop, not a poverty spec machine for a 7 year old to use instead of a Chromebook.

nix23 5y ago
Look normally i would get mad at you, BUT since i made some pretty bad purchases in the past Openmoko, Loongson Laptop (was not a bad server, but horrible laptop), GPD3, i will never ever purchase a bad spec/newtec product ever again (i don't like creating electronic waste), for example i can buy a Samsung A12 for the price of a Pinephone, if i want something like a pinephone i buy a raspberrypi and a A12
- jascii 5y ago
  How is buying a Samsung with its planned obsolescence not creating electronic waste? Most Pine products are supported by the mainstream kernel so will likely get software updates for their physical life.
  - nix23 5y ago
    I wait 2 years then i throw lineage os on it, last phone was a nexus 5. I bet your pinephone will not be usable for 7 years....2gb ram right? BTW can you receive sms already?
    - jascii 5y ago
      3gb, works fast and snappy with sxmo. And yes, I have been able to receive and send sms since I got it. What did you want to bet for?
      - nix23 5y ago
        The seven years? The newest raspberrypi starterset at that moment (2028)?
        jascii 5y ago
        Sure! Though a more interesting test would be the total useful lifespan of either phone, Pine vs your Samsung. Oh, and I already have over a year and a half on mine :D Do you think you can even get a replacement battery for your a12 in 3 years?
        nix23 5y ago
        >Do you think you can even get a replacement battery for your a12 in 3 years? Ah yes since the producer of phones needs to support them 5 years in franc (repair and updates), and hopefully 7 years (just security updates) in the future by eu law. Ok then lets say 2027 ;)
Teknoman117 5y ago
The eMMC module is user swappable, so just get a larger one. You can also install an NVMe drive into it. I put /boot on the stock eMMC and root on the NVMe drive. You can do pure NVMe boot but I've been a bit too chicken about reflashing u-boot. The ram does feel paltry in this day and age though. I wish you could use a sodimm module like the honeycomb uses.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  It's at least usable in most distros at 4gb. I wouldn't spec a Windows machine below 16gb, but you can get a functional desktop in Linux at 4gb.
  - nix23 5y ago
    But just if you browse with lynx.
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      Firefox with one tab open can run in 2GB.
      - nix23 5y ago
        Thanks you made my day ;) Tomorrow i will buy that incredible new laptop, any cheap atom/celeron netbook would be faster..and better...and probably cheaper: https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Chromebook-Processor-Graphics-82BA0003US/dp/B087YW8FQB https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Chromebook-Processor-Graphics-...
    - vorpalhex 5y ago
      Midori is a lightweight option that is pretty usable. Some intensive sites have issues on it but for plenty of things it's fine.
      - nix23 5y ago
        Good point for buying a new laptop ;)
maximus-decimus 5y ago
I really don't think the RAM is the issue here. it's workable on Linux really. For me the biggest pain point is how sluggish Firefox is. And how there's a lot of stuff I can't install on it because they don't support ARM.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
yaseer 5y ago
Aside: I agree, but find phrases like 'poverty spec' a little distasteful. 'Low spec' is a pretty normal phrase that gets the point across.
- quocanh 5y ago
  Completely irrelevant to the main discussion, but this got me wondering. Why is equating poverty to bad/meager/lacking considered distasteful? Wouldn't anybody in poverty agree that it's a pretty accurate comparison? Are there really any harmful stereotypes being perpetuated here? I can't think of any.
  - zuminator 5y ago
    I would say at the very least that "low spec" is more accurate than "poverty spec." A financially comfortable hobbyist or developer might pick up a low spec device or three for testing or mucking about with. And someone who's really in poverty is probably not well-served by a poverty spec device that is poorly made and might break down in a couple of months or might be hampered to the extent of being no more than a toy. They might be much better off getting a decently specced used device. To your larger question, the problem of why equating "poverty" with being bad is that as human beings we have the tendency of overgeneralizing negative characteristics, sometimes called the Horn Effect. A person is poor, and that's bad, and therefore the person themself is bad.
    - IncRnd 5y ago
      Poverty spec is an actual term that gets used and wasn't invented by the OP. Poverty spec generally refers to purchasing an expensive item, such as a high-end car, then choosing the lowest-cost, entry-level options. It doesn't normally mean just purchasing an inexpensive computer.
      - pengaru 5y ago
        Poverty refers to the impoverished, which generally implies in need of assistance from others and has negative connotations entirely unrelated to what's being discussed here. The laptop is targeting a specific price point, its specs are appropriate to that price point. There are plenty of reasons to want a low-cost linux laptop that have absolutely nothing to do with being poor.
artfulhippo 5y ago
Totally agree. I use a Raspberry Pi 4 with 8GB ram daily. CPU is only a bottleneck when compiling, but with just browser and terminal I regularly break 4GB ram usage.
gjsman-1000 5y ago
That exists already - it's called the MacBook Air with M1, which has 256GB/512GB storage options and 8GB/16GB RAM options as you wished for. It's got Linux being brought-up for it by @marcan42 and already can boot from a mainline kernel (though hardware support is still coming along, but they've already nearly got an OpenGLES GPU driver less than a year after launch). Also Apple went out of their way to make Linux and other OSs able to boot on it, so don't expect Apple to take away what they worked hard on. What's novel about this Linux Laptop though is the low cost, $200. But you get what you pay for. And the M1 is, a year from now, probably going to have better (if not completely) upstream hardware support.
- freedomben 5y ago
  Please don't buy an M1 thinking it will be a good linux machine. There is still a lot of work that needs to be done. Get A Framework (frame.work) laptop or a Lenovo ThinkPad T series instead. Dell has some nice ones too but I haven't used any in a couple of years.
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    I respectfully disagree. @marcan42 is doing the development work and firmly believes that, once completed, the M1 machine will provide a superior experience to Intel machines. Also, while there is a ways to go, a shocking amount is fully completed: I2C, UART, Power Management, GPIO, Display Controller, USB, Thunderbolt, NVMe storage, the works. Hector says he is just rewriting a few drivers from other folk, going to merge it upstream, and then really only the GPU is remaining. But he has a friend working on that and less than a year later and despite not being the primary focus, they're nearly at OpenGLES, which has shocked people for how fast the GPU drivers are coming together.
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      Sounds like you agree there is work to be done before it's suitable to buy.
- sofixa 5y ago
amatecha 5y ago
Keep an eye out for the new system module for MNT Reform which will feature LS1028A SoC [0] and is supposed to be ready mid-2021[1]. It will allow 8 or 16gb of RAM. As it's open-source hardware you can watch the progress here: https://source.mnt.re/reform/mnt-reform-layerscape-ls1028a-som https://source.mnt.re/reform/mnt-reform-layerscape-ls1028a-s... [0] https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/arm-processors/layerscape-processors/layerscape-1028a-applications-processor:LS1028A https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers... [1] https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2020-11-27-reform-production-update-nov-2020.html https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2020-11-27-reform-producti... See also https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform/updates/post-campaign-orders https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform/updates/post-campaign... and https://mastodon.social/@mntmn https://mastodon.social/@mntmn
alpaca128 5y ago
RAM is not the bottleneck, increasing it doesn't do much with that hardware. I have the RPi4 with 8GB and have to try hard to go beyond 4GB usage. I hope the RPi5 will make a similar jump in performance as the fourth generation. Right now desktop use is kind of slow, but still nice because a good passively cooled case keeps it around 50°C without any noise.

nix23 5y ago

Look normally i would get mad at you, BUT since i made some pretty bad purchases in the past Openmoko, Loongson Laptop (was not a bad server, but horrible laptop), GPD3, i will never ever purchase a bad spec/newtec product ever again (i don't like creating electronic waste), for example i can buy a Samsung A12 for the price of a Pinephone, if i want something like a pinephone i buy a raspberrypi and a A12

jascii 5y ago
How is buying a Samsung with its planned obsolescence not creating electronic waste? Most Pine products are supported by the mainstream kernel so will likely get software updates for their physical life.
- nix23 5y ago
  I wait 2 years then i throw lineage os on it, last phone was a nexus 5. I bet your pinephone will not be usable for 7 years....2gb ram right? BTW can you receive sms already?
  - jascii 5y ago
    3gb, works fast and snappy with sxmo. And yes, I have been able to receive and send sms since I got it. What did you want to bet for?
    - nix23 5y ago
      The seven years? The newest raspberrypi starterset at that moment (2028)?
      - jascii 5y ago
        Sure! Though a more interesting test would be the total useful lifespan of either phone, Pine vs your Samsung. Oh, and I already have over a year and a half on mine :D Do you think you can even get a replacement battery for your a12 in 3 years?
        nix23 5y ago
        >Do you think you can even get a replacement battery for your a12 in 3 years? Ah yes since the producer of phones needs to support them 5 years in franc (repair and updates), and hopefully 7 years (just security updates) in the future by eu law. Ok then lets say 2027 ;)

Teknoman117 5y ago

The eMMC module is user swappable, so just get a larger one. You can also install an NVMe drive into it. I put /boot on the stock eMMC and root on the NVMe drive. You can do pure NVMe boot but I've been a bit too chicken about reflashing u-boot. The ram does feel paltry in this day and age though. I wish you could use a sodimm module like the honeycomb uses.

vorpalhex 5y ago
It's at least usable in most distros at 4gb. I wouldn't spec a Windows machine below 16gb, but you can get a functional desktop in Linux at 4gb.
- nix23 5y ago
  But just if you browse with lynx.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    Firefox with one tab open can run in 2GB.
    - nix23 5y ago
      Thanks you made my day ;) Tomorrow i will buy that incredible new laptop, any cheap atom/celeron netbook would be faster..and better...and probably cheaper: https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Chromebook-Processor-Graphics-82BA0003US/dp/B087YW8FQB https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Chromebook-Processor-Graphics-...
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    Midori is a lightweight option that is pretty usable. Some intensive sites have issues on it but for plenty of things it's fine.
    - nix23 5y ago
      Good point for buying a new laptop ;)

maximus-decimus 5y ago

I really don't think the RAM is the issue here. it's workable on Linux really. For me the biggest pain point is how sluggish Firefox is. And how there's a lot of stuff I can't install on it because they don't support ARM.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

yaseer 5y ago

Aside: I agree, but find phrases like 'poverty spec' a little distasteful. 'Low spec' is a pretty normal phrase that gets the point across.

quocanh 5y ago
Completely irrelevant to the main discussion, but this got me wondering. Why is equating poverty to bad/meager/lacking considered distasteful? Wouldn't anybody in poverty agree that it's a pretty accurate comparison? Are there really any harmful stereotypes being perpetuated here? I can't think of any.
- zuminator 5y ago
  I would say at the very least that "low spec" is more accurate than "poverty spec." A financially comfortable hobbyist or developer might pick up a low spec device or three for testing or mucking about with. And someone who's really in poverty is probably not well-served by a poverty spec device that is poorly made and might break down in a couple of months or might be hampered to the extent of being no more than a toy. They might be much better off getting a decently specced used device. To your larger question, the problem of why equating "poverty" with being bad is that as human beings we have the tendency of overgeneralizing negative characteristics, sometimes called the Horn Effect. A person is poor, and that's bad, and therefore the person themself is bad.
  - IncRnd 5y ago
    Poverty spec is an actual term that gets used and wasn't invented by the OP. Poverty spec generally refers to purchasing an expensive item, such as a high-end car, then choosing the lowest-cost, entry-level options. It doesn't normally mean just purchasing an inexpensive computer.
    - pengaru 5y ago
      Poverty refers to the impoverished, which generally implies in need of assistance from others and has negative connotations entirely unrelated to what's being discussed here. The laptop is targeting a specific price point, its specs are appropriate to that price point. There are plenty of reasons to want a low-cost linux laptop that have absolutely nothing to do with being poor.

artfulhippo 5y ago

Totally agree. I use a Raspberry Pi 4 with 8GB ram daily. CPU is only a bottleneck when compiling, but with just browser and terminal I regularly break 4GB ram usage.

gjsman-1000 5y ago

That exists already - it's called the MacBook Air with M1, which has 256GB/512GB storage options and 8GB/16GB RAM options as you wished for. It's got Linux being brought-up for it by @marcan42 and already can boot from a mainline kernel (though hardware support is still coming along, but they've already nearly got an OpenGLES GPU driver less than a year after launch). Also Apple went out of their way to make Linux and other OSs able to boot on it, so don't expect Apple to take away what they worked hard on. What's novel about this Linux Laptop though is the low cost, $200. But you get what you pay for. And the M1 is, a year from now, probably going to have better (if not completely) upstream hardware support.

freedomben 5y ago
Please don't buy an M1 thinking it will be a good linux machine. There is still a lot of work that needs to be done. Get A Framework (frame.work) laptop or a Lenovo ThinkPad T series instead. Dell has some nice ones too but I haven't used any in a couple of years.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  I respectfully disagree. @marcan42 is doing the development work and firmly believes that, once completed, the M1 machine will provide a superior experience to Intel machines. Also, while there is a ways to go, a shocking amount is fully completed: I2C, UART, Power Management, GPIO, Display Controller, USB, Thunderbolt, NVMe storage, the works. Hector says he is just rewriting a few drivers from other folk, going to merge it upstream, and then really only the GPU is remaining. But he has a friend working on that and less than a year later and despite not being the primary focus, they're nearly at OpenGLES, which has shocked people for how fast the GPU drivers are coming together.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    Sounds like you agree there is work to be done before it's suitable to buy.
sofixa 5y ago

amatecha 5y ago

Keep an eye out for the new system module for MNT Reform which will feature LS1028A SoC [0] and is supposed to be ready mid-2021[1]. It will allow 8 or 16gb of RAM. As it's open-source hardware you can watch the progress here: https://source.mnt.re/reform/mnt-reform-layerscape-ls1028a-som https://source.mnt.re/reform/mnt-reform-layerscape-ls1028a-s... [0] https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/arm-processors/layerscape-processors/layerscape-1028a-applications-processor:LS1028A https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers... [1] https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2020-11-27-reform-production-update-nov-2020.html https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2020-11-27-reform-producti... See also https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform/updates/post-campaign-orders https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform/updates/post-campaign... and https://mastodon.social/@mntmn https://mastodon.social/@mntmn

alpaca128 5y ago

RAM is not the bottleneck, increasing it doesn't do much with that hardware. I have the RPi4 with 8GB and have to try hard to go beyond 4GB usage. I hope the RPi5 will make a similar jump in performance as the fourth generation. Right now desktop use is kind of slow, but still nice because a good passively cooled case keeps it around 50°C without any noise.