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"There are people who believe that the vaccines are much more capable than they are, and go as far as lionizing Pfizer in the form of things like tattoos, Fauci

"There are people who believe that the vaccines are much more capable than they are, and go as far as lionizing Pfizer in the form of things like tattoos, Fauci fan art, and so on" I was genuinely thinking you are making it up. Then I checked the web. First I shook my head, but then I reminded myself US is a nation of 330+ million people. Some are bound to do something outlandish like branding your body with corporate logo for no pay. Mildly related, I am currently going through Ellul's work and I am in awe of American propaganda machine.

ravenstine 5y ago
Yeah I'm not pretending that they make up any sort of majority or massive minority, but they are small and can be loud. If there really were that many of them, the Fauci propaganda film on Disney+ wouldn't have been so highly ratio'd, I think. Plus I live in California and, yeah, we can be pretty weird like that. Putting aside the particularly enthusiastic individuals, there are many people who really want to believe that this problem is going to go away because the government and Big Pharma will make it happen. I think everyone wants to believe that. I want to believe that science and technology can put a stop to this and maybe we can enter a new renaissance. The difference is that some have gone as far as to view any sort of questions as a form of heresy. Or they've reached a point where they can't handle any amount of disagreement. I'm a little biased, perhaps. I have a few sets of friends and family that became so heavily invested in the pandemic that they entirely closed themselves off for the last year and a half. My best friend whom I've known almost my whole life and I consider to be a brother not only has decided he can't have an earnest discussion about strategy against the virus but I've only seen him twice in the last year and I've not been able to see his wife or his son who was born last year. I effectively have a non-blood nephew whose first years I'm missing out on, and at this point I just don't find it to be reasonable. One of my cousins and his family remained totally locked up this whole time, going as far as to decontaminate all of his mail and leave it to air out in the garage for a week. I can't meet his children either, and until recently his children couldn't see other children. He and his wife would throw a conniption fit if they know that I was more skeptical than they. None of these people even care that I've been vaccinated. There's more personal stories I have, but those are the ones that emotionally affect me the most. I've talked to many others on Discord that have similar stories about their own social circles. So yeah, when some people witness such extreme reactions and realize that the establishment has shown an almost total lack of interest in self-improvement, they are liable to think "Big Phrama doesn't want me to take Vitamin D, so that must mean it works against COVID! And if it doesn't, well, screw Big Pharma anyway." In another circumstance, although I am kind of a supplement fiend myself, I'd have made fun of the Vitamin D, HCQ, and Ivermectin people in any other circumstance. Now I just see it as just a reflection of our collective ignorant choices rather than as an aberration. And to be honest, I just can't bring myself to shame the people who overestimate Vitamin D because at least they don't act like I carry the black plague.
- wallacewherehe 5y ago
  So, you sound like kind of a jerk. Yes, perhaps they’re overly concerned, but if a friend of mine is worried about contracting a deadly illness; I’m going to scrub my hands like a surgeon and follow whatever I need to do to make them feel safe. Your feelings don’t matter, it’s the person who is concerned who sets the limitations, otherwise you’re just a toxic asshole making them anxious. I personally also avoid people who talk like you, because while I managed to avoid covid without any worries, they keep saying things about how we’re all going to get it so maybe we should just get it so we can be done. And they infected people they claim to care about with willful negligence. If you don’t want people to cut you out, it’s best to hear what they say.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  Illinois here and we are all weird:). Regarding the enthusiastic individuals and believers in technology in general, I want to run something by you that I heard somewhere, and I think it is applicable here. I think it was a salesguy pitch, but the argument went ( based on the lyrics of: "The sun'll come out tomorrow So you got to hang on till' tomorrow, come what may! Tomorrow, tomorrow, I love ya, tomorrow You're only a day away!") that Americans are super optimistic. I remember buying into that description since I was internally comparing it to the old country and basic response to everything being doom and gloom. There is some value to hope, but I agree that blind faith can be counterproductive here. I hear you on the family front. It has been a very weird experience overall. My extended family and social circles tend on the conservative side with some outliers. As far as I know, all are vaccinated too. As expected, the reactions were all over the place. We have one family unit that locked itself in with their kid and has not seen anyone for months initially and is only now relaxing their protocols somewhat. I do think it is a little over the top, but it really is their choice.. for better or for worse. We have one that is regularly roaming the countryside. All this is happening, while my wife is still going full time to work at a doctor's office. We have a baby too, but we are going for the middle ground. It probably helps that we are home bodies. In all probability, we will eventually get covid just based on her exposure alone. Overall, I agree with you -- we all missed out on some memories. But all this talk about vitamin D reminded me I have to schedule an annual check up. Heavens know I did not move much in 2021. Anyway, stay healthy.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
> but then I reminded myself US is a nation of 330+ million people. As I type this, there are a few score people gathered together waiting for a long-dead icon of liberal politics to return from beyond the grave and join forces with the previous president, who is politically opposite. You can find anyone who believes anything in the US of A.
- ravenstine 5y ago
  That's totally fair. Perhaps for people such as myself, who grew up in a time where the fringe of society pretty much stayed that way, the publicity that anyone can get today can create a simulation of normalcy.
  - SavantIdiot 5y ago
    > the publicity that anyone can get today can create a simulation of normalcy. It seems like it isn't hard for any belief or belief-system to obtain a critical mass. It feels like a paradox: if the threshold for critical mass has fallen, or the number of people required to reach critical mass has grown for every niche? I'm not sure what's going on, but I'm scared. Maybe this is the "old person scared" thing I giggled about when I was a kid watching my grandmother try to make sense of a computer...
podgaj 5y ago
The scientific definition for the COVID vaccine is that it is "leaky". This is true of the flu vaccines as well. https://www.infectiousdiseaseadvisor.com/home/topics/respiratory/influenza/is-a-leaky-vaccine-mechanism-responsible-to-decreased-flu-season-vaccine-effectiveness/ https://www.infectiousdiseaseadvisor.com/home/topics/respira... They knew this and they lied to us all. That was the worst type of propaganda. And IMO, Fauci is the worst at this type of patronizing behavior. We cannot vaccine our way out of this pandemic. It is with us, so get healthy.
- spurgu 5y ago
  Getting vaccinated is also a good option if you're concerned about your health. In fact, the optimal might be to get vaccinated and then get Covid on purpose. Thus you get the mildest possible case. After that your immune system is properly trained and subsequent infections will be milder. I'm double-vaccinated but strongly considering this option now as corona passports are being discussed in my country. Fuck that logicless shit (restrictions should apply to everyone equally).
  - podgaj 5y ago
    I am double vaxxed (6 months) and I sit in the most crowded coffee shops I can all day in a college town, no mask. Nothing yet.
    - spurgu 5y ago
      Sure. What's your point?
      - hazza_n_dazza 5y ago
        they are trying to get infected... yes we need some proper research into this idea of vax / infect treatment.
        podgaj 5y ago

ravenstine 5y ago

Yeah I'm not pretending that they make up any sort of majority or massive minority, but they are small and can be loud. If there really were that many of them, the Fauci propaganda film on Disney+ wouldn't have been so highly ratio'd, I think. Plus I live in California and, yeah, we can be pretty weird like that. Putting aside the particularly enthusiastic individuals, there are many people who really want to believe that this problem is going to go away because the government and Big Pharma will make it happen. I think everyone wants to believe that. I want to believe that science and technology can put a stop to this and maybe we can enter a new renaissance. The difference is that some have gone as far as to view any sort of questions as a form of heresy. Or they've reached a point where they can't handle any amount of disagreement. I'm a little biased, perhaps. I have a few sets of friends and family that became so heavily invested in the pandemic that they entirely closed themselves off for the last year and a half. My best friend whom I've known almost my whole life and I consider to be a brother not only has decided he can't have an earnest discussion about strategy against the virus but I've only seen him twice in the last year and I've not been able to see his wife or his son who was born last year. I effectively have a non-blood nephew whose first years I'm missing out on, and at this point I just don't find it to be reasonable. One of my cousins and his family remained totally locked up this whole time, going as far as to decontaminate all of his mail and leave it to air out in the garage for a week. I can't meet his children either, and until recently his children couldn't see other children. He and his wife would throw a conniption fit if they know that I was more skeptical than they. None of these people even care that I've been vaccinated. There's more personal stories I have, but those are the ones that emotionally affect me the most. I've talked to many others on Discord that have similar stories about their own social circles. So yeah, when some people witness such extreme reactions and realize that the establishment has shown an almost total lack of interest in self-improvement, they are liable to think "Big Phrama doesn't want me to take Vitamin D, so that must mean it works against COVID! And if it doesn't, well, screw Big Pharma anyway." In another circumstance, although I am kind of a supplement fiend myself, I'd have made fun of the Vitamin D, HCQ, and Ivermectin people in any other circumstance. Now I just see it as just a reflection of our collective ignorant choices rather than as an aberration. And to be honest, I just can't bring myself to shame the people who overestimate Vitamin D because at least they don't act like I carry the black plague.

wallacewherehe 5y ago
So, you sound like kind of a jerk. Yes, perhaps they’re overly concerned, but if a friend of mine is worried about contracting a deadly illness; I’m going to scrub my hands like a surgeon and follow whatever I need to do to make them feel safe. Your feelings don’t matter, it’s the person who is concerned who sets the limitations, otherwise you’re just a toxic asshole making them anxious. I personally also avoid people who talk like you, because while I managed to avoid covid without any worries, they keep saying things about how we’re all going to get it so maybe we should just get it so we can be done. And they infected people they claim to care about with willful negligence. If you don’t want people to cut you out, it’s best to hear what they say.
A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
Illinois here and we are all weird:). Regarding the enthusiastic individuals and believers in technology in general, I want to run something by you that I heard somewhere, and I think it is applicable here. I think it was a salesguy pitch, but the argument went ( based on the lyrics of: "The sun'll come out tomorrow So you got to hang on till' tomorrow, come what may! Tomorrow, tomorrow, I love ya, tomorrow You're only a day away!") that Americans are super optimistic. I remember buying into that description since I was internally comparing it to the old country and basic response to everything being doom and gloom. There is some value to hope, but I agree that blind faith can be counterproductive here. I hear you on the family front. It has been a very weird experience overall. My extended family and social circles tend on the conservative side with some outliers. As far as I know, all are vaccinated too. As expected, the reactions were all over the place. We have one family unit that locked itself in with their kid and has not seen anyone for months initially and is only now relaxing their protocols somewhat. I do think it is a little over the top, but it really is their choice.. for better or for worse. We have one that is regularly roaming the countryside. All this is happening, while my wife is still going full time to work at a doctor's office. We have a baby too, but we are going for the middle ground. It probably helps that we are home bodies. In all probability, we will eventually get covid just based on her exposure alone. Overall, I agree with you -- we all missed out on some memories. But all this talk about vitamin D reminded me I have to schedule an annual check up. Heavens know I did not move much in 2021. Anyway, stay healthy.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

> but then I reminded myself US is a nation of 330+ million people. As I type this, there are a few score people gathered together waiting for a long-dead icon of liberal politics to return from beyond the grave and join forces with the previous president, who is politically opposite. You can find anyone who believes anything in the US of A.

ravenstine 5y ago
That's totally fair. Perhaps for people such as myself, who grew up in a time where the fringe of society pretty much stayed that way, the publicity that anyone can get today can create a simulation of normalcy.
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  > the publicity that anyone can get today can create a simulation of normalcy. It seems like it isn't hard for any belief or belief-system to obtain a critical mass. It feels like a paradox: if the threshold for critical mass has fallen, or the number of people required to reach critical mass has grown for every niche? I'm not sure what's going on, but I'm scared. Maybe this is the "old person scared" thing I giggled about when I was a kid watching my grandmother try to make sense of a computer...

podgaj 5y ago

The scientific definition for the COVID vaccine is that it is "leaky". This is true of the flu vaccines as well. https://www.infectiousdiseaseadvisor.com/home/topics/respiratory/influenza/is-a-leaky-vaccine-mechanism-responsible-to-decreased-flu-season-vaccine-effectiveness/ https://www.infectiousdiseaseadvisor.com/home/topics/respira... They knew this and they lied to us all. That was the worst type of propaganda. And IMO, Fauci is the worst at this type of patronizing behavior. We cannot vaccine our way out of this pandemic. It is with us, so get healthy.

spurgu 5y ago
Getting vaccinated is also a good option if you're concerned about your health. In fact, the optimal might be to get vaccinated and then get Covid on purpose. Thus you get the mildest possible case. After that your immune system is properly trained and subsequent infections will be milder. I'm double-vaccinated but strongly considering this option now as corona passports are being discussed in my country. Fuck that logicless shit (restrictions should apply to everyone equally).
- podgaj 5y ago
  I am double vaxxed (6 months) and I sit in the most crowded coffee shops I can all day in a college town, no mask. Nothing yet.
  - spurgu 5y ago
    Sure. What's your point?
    - hazza_n_dazza 5y ago
      they are trying to get infected... yes we need some proper research into this idea of vax / infect treatment.
      - podgaj 5y ago