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I guess the alternative is homeschooling, where the parent is the tyrant instead. Sometimes they are benevolent dictators (e.g. more personalized education enco

I guess the alternative is homeschooling, where the parent is the tyrant instead. Sometimes they are benevolent dictators (e.g. more personalized education encouraging methodical exploration and autodidacticism), sometimes they are not (time to teach my son/daughter how the world REALLY works). And a lot of parents don’t have the time to be either.

h2odragon 5y ago
Or Community schools where the communities set the standards. My specific example is the local Amish school, which is a "one room schoolhouse" old style model and has worked with our local school board to meet the state standards, too. Their example and materials were extremely helpful when we home schooled our daughter for a few years. Some kids won't benefit from a formal school at all. I expect HN has a rather larger proportion of that type than usual in the population. Getting those kids out of prison as early as possible and into a situation where they can develop instead of cramp their potential would be a great boon for humanity, I think.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  That's a similar problem though. Yes, the community may benevolent, or it may be tyrannical, and if you're a kid in the latter community well it just sucks to be you buddy. Maybe you'll get luckier in your next life.
- BlueTemplar 5y ago
  This becomes a problem (in true Nation-States) if you have some communities that have values that are fundamentally opposed to the values of the Nation itself. To take a recent example : homeschooling is now effectively banned in France due to the (reactionary) Muslim threat. (Personally, I'm still unsure as of whether this was the best way to go about it, especially considering how it comes together with an attempt to create a Muslim clergy, which not only seems to go against the (majority) Sunnite practices (closer to Protestants than the better known Catholics which serve as the model here ?), but also puts at the head of it an association with terrorist ties (ties to the Muslim Brotherhood), and finally violates the core principle of separation of Church and State...)
dhagz 5y ago
It's funny, I'm fairly skeptical of homeschooling due to my experience being homeschooled. Not that my mom did a bad job, she did the best she could, but the curriculum we followed was, to put it lightly, incredibly conservative and Catholic. Like, there was an entire chapter of one of my American history books dedicated to the oppression of Catholics in Colonial/early America. To focus so heavily on that instead of the other oppressions of the time is...not great. There were some good things in the curriculum as well - I spent a lot of time reading and memorizing Shakespeare and great poems. But those bright spots don't make up for brushing over evolution and an incredibly skewed perspective of history.
SyzygistSix 5y ago
There are other alternatives. 20 students per teacher, along with an teacher's aide/intern for starters. And I had a very different type of schooling, even though it was public. And in a 1970s working class/middle class town. From 1-5th grade, we were taught a subject together, then separately in turn according to our ability and level. While not being actively taught we worked on packets that we worked through at our own pace. This allowed some students to advance years ahead in English or math, as well as preventing teachers from passing kids who do not comprehend the material, while still being taught in the same classroom. I'm surprised this method is not used more often. Perhaps it failed on the whole. It seemed to work well for me. Although the lower amount of single income two parent households is definitely an issue, as are the modern extended over 40 hour workweek for parents. And the lack of independence imparted from walking to elementary school, which was common then.
- threatofrain 5y ago
  In California, math classrooms in nice places may still have classroom sizes of 40 students, with classroom size penalties ending at middle school. To get down to 20 students per teacher districts across the state would have to basically double the number of math teachers. This may be a necessary move but it's a steep political battle.
avgcorrection 5y ago
By “I guess” I presume you mean that you have only heard of homeschooling and standard public education and in turn you sling dirt based on your total lack of knowledge. There have been alternatives -- for example based on Steiner, Montessori, Dewey, etc.
- biophysboy 5y ago
  I'm aware you can pay money to solve problems.

h2odragon 5y ago

Or Community schools where the communities set the standards. My specific example is the local Amish school, which is a "one room schoolhouse" old style model and has worked with our local school board to meet the state standards, too. Their example and materials were extremely helpful when we home schooled our daughter for a few years. Some kids won't benefit from a formal school at all. I expect HN has a rather larger proportion of that type than usual in the population. Getting those kids out of prison as early as possible and into a situation where they can develop instead of cramp their potential would be a great boon for humanity, I think.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
That's a similar problem though. Yes, the community may benevolent, or it may be tyrannical, and if you're a kid in the latter community well it just sucks to be you buddy. Maybe you'll get luckier in your next life.
BlueTemplar 5y ago
This becomes a problem (in true Nation-States) if you have some communities that have values that are fundamentally opposed to the values of the Nation itself. To take a recent example : homeschooling is now effectively banned in France due to the (reactionary) Muslim threat. (Personally, I'm still unsure as of whether this was the best way to go about it, especially considering how it comes together with an attempt to create a Muslim clergy, which not only seems to go against the (majority) Sunnite practices (closer to Protestants than the better known Catholics which serve as the model here ?), but also puts at the head of it an association with terrorist ties (ties to the Muslim Brotherhood), and finally violates the core principle of separation of Church and State...)

dhagz 5y ago

It's funny, I'm fairly skeptical of homeschooling due to my experience being homeschooled. Not that my mom did a bad job, she did the best she could, but the curriculum we followed was, to put it lightly, incredibly conservative and Catholic. Like, there was an entire chapter of one of my American history books dedicated to the oppression of Catholics in Colonial/early America. To focus so heavily on that instead of the other oppressions of the time is...not great. There were some good things in the curriculum as well - I spent a lot of time reading and memorizing Shakespeare and great poems. But those bright spots don't make up for brushing over evolution and an incredibly skewed perspective of history.

SyzygistSix 5y ago

There are other alternatives. 20 students per teacher, along with an teacher's aide/intern for starters. And I had a very different type of schooling, even though it was public. And in a 1970s working class/middle class town. From 1-5th grade, we were taught a subject together, then separately in turn according to our ability and level. While not being actively taught we worked on packets that we worked through at our own pace. This allowed some students to advance years ahead in English or math, as well as preventing teachers from passing kids who do not comprehend the material, while still being taught in the same classroom. I'm surprised this method is not used more often. Perhaps it failed on the whole. It seemed to work well for me. Although the lower amount of single income two parent households is definitely an issue, as are the modern extended over 40 hour workweek for parents. And the lack of independence imparted from walking to elementary school, which was common then.

threatofrain 5y ago
In California, math classrooms in nice places may still have classroom sizes of 40 students, with classroom size penalties ending at middle school. To get down to 20 students per teacher districts across the state would have to basically double the number of math teachers. This may be a necessary move but it's a steep political battle.

avgcorrection 5y ago

By “I guess” I presume you mean that you have only heard of homeschooling and standard public education and in turn you sling dirt based on your total lack of knowledge. There have been alternatives -- for example based on Steiner, Montessori, Dewey, etc.

biophysboy 5y ago
I'm aware you can pay money to solve problems.