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> bug ridden garbage This is what I was reacting to. Does this suggest that the feedback is likely to be constructive?

coldtea 5y ago
The feedback can be very constructive despite the language. Or even because of it - as this kind of language can mean "I wont sugarcoat it, I'll say it like it is". It's up to the receiver of that feedback to be able to see this.
OJFord 5y ago
I don't know about you, but I think I'm capable of polite conversation with someone whom I believe to be talking nonsense; or being friendly in discussing something I think is no good. (In fact, maybe I'm willing to offer an example.. :/ - https://github.com/posquit0/Awesome-CV/pull/372#pullrequestreview-812788398 https://github.com/posquit0/Awesome-CV/pull/372#pullrequestr... - could have been better perhaps, but I don't think it's too off-putting if the author has a legitimate change they want in, and surely they'd see the problem, I don't think it looks like gate-keeping pedantry? (NB the repo was unmaintained, I was recently added as a collaborator, so older issues/PRs with no maintainer response aren't a counter-example, I'm just in the process of sorting through them.)) The author of that comment was talking to us about low quality PRs, not a specific one, to an author of one, nor in feedback comments on one.
- klelatti 5y ago
  > The fact is that most programmers do not have the patience, skill or experience to write half-decent code that isn't bug-ridden garbage. It's not about PRs. Read it carefully. It's a comment about 'most programmers' who apparently don't have characteristics that mean they can do anything but produce 'bug ridden garbage'.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    The previous sentence was: > The barrier to entry isn't mailing lists, or Torvalds, or perfectionism or gatekeeping. i.e. the context is reviewing (however that's done) contributed code.
    - klelatti 5y ago
      Well they could have said 'Most PRs are bug ridden garbage' - stronger than I would use but fair enough. But no, it's a comment on the characteristics of people contributing to projects. It's saying that they are not capable of making a quality contribution.
      - asimpletune 5y ago
        > It's saying that they are not capable of making a quality contribution. But isn't that true? At least not right away, which is why the code gets reviewed. I'm pretty sure everyone writes bug ridden garbage, unless they're not already intimately familiar with the codebase already.
      - entropicdrifter 5y ago
        It's saying they are not capable of making a quality contribution without criticism/review. Your reply here is some serious pedantry, you're essentially arguing that the output of most programmers is totally disconnected from the abilities of most programmers. Really, what other relevant external indicators of the abilities of a given programmer does anyone have access to besides the code they output?
        klelatti 5y ago
        1. Your PR is bug ridden garbage. 2. You don't have the patience, skills or experience to write anything other than bug ridden garbage. Not pedantry at all so see a big distinction between these two statements. In fact almost a textbook study of how to / how not to give feedback.
        OJFord 5y ago
diffeomorphism 5y ago
Yes, that sounds like it is going to be completely constructive and straightforward discussion.

The feedback can be very constructive despite the language. Or even because of it - as this kind of language can mean "I wont sugarcoat it, I'll say it like it is". It's up to the receiver of that feedback to be able to see this.

OJFord 5y ago

I don't know about you, but I think I'm capable of polite conversation with someone whom I believe to be talking nonsense; or being friendly in discussing something I think is no good. (In fact, maybe I'm willing to offer an example.. :/ - https://github.com/posquit0/Awesome-CV/pull/372#pullrequestreview-812788398 https://github.com/posquit0/Awesome-CV/pull/372#pullrequestr... - could have been better perhaps, but I don't think it's too off-putting if the author has a legitimate change they want in, and surely they'd see the problem, I don't think it looks like gate-keeping pedantry? (NB the repo was unmaintained, I was recently added as a collaborator, so older issues/PRs with no maintainer response aren't a counter-example, I'm just in the process of sorting through them.)) The author of that comment was talking to us about low quality PRs, not a specific one, to an author of one, nor in feedback comments on one.

klelatti 5y ago
> The fact is that most programmers do not have the patience, skill or experience to write half-decent code that isn't bug-ridden garbage. It's not about PRs. Read it carefully. It's a comment about 'most programmers' who apparently don't have characteristics that mean they can do anything but produce 'bug ridden garbage'.
- OJFord 5y ago
  The previous sentence was: > The barrier to entry isn't mailing lists, or Torvalds, or perfectionism or gatekeeping. i.e. the context is reviewing (however that's done) contributed code.
  - klelatti 5y ago
    Well they could have said 'Most PRs are bug ridden garbage' - stronger than I would use but fair enough. But no, it's a comment on the characteristics of people contributing to projects. It's saying that they are not capable of making a quality contribution.
    - asimpletune 5y ago
      > It's saying that they are not capable of making a quality contribution. But isn't that true? At least not right away, which is why the code gets reviewed. I'm pretty sure everyone writes bug ridden garbage, unless they're not already intimately familiar with the codebase already.
    - entropicdrifter 5y ago
      It's saying they are not capable of making a quality contribution without criticism/review. Your reply here is some serious pedantry, you're essentially arguing that the output of most programmers is totally disconnected from the abilities of most programmers. Really, what other relevant external indicators of the abilities of a given programmer does anyone have access to besides the code they output?
      - klelatti 5y ago
        1. Your PR is bug ridden garbage. 2. You don't have the patience, skills or experience to write anything other than bug ridden garbage. Not pedantry at all so see a big distinction between these two statements. In fact almost a textbook study of how to / how not to give feedback.
        OJFord 5y ago

diffeomorphism 5y ago

Yes, that sounds like it is going to be completely constructive and straightforward discussion.