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> The reason for this being that these parents had the gall to demand a say in their own children’s education, protesting and screaming about curricula and mand

> The reason for this being that these parents had the gall to demand a say in their own children’s education, protesting and screaming about curricula and mandates that were implemented unilaterally without their input. If only they'd been to school and learned to communicate without screaming like children. ... > Lying to the public To be fair, the public are a bunch of idiots who'll panic and cause shortages where non exist. In conclusion people in the past said things relevant to the past. ... The tone of the comment is ridiculously dismissive. If you do not address existing complaints, at best, they will fester. The response provided did not address the complaint, but instead opted for ad hominem variant.

mavhc 5y ago
Less dismissive than the original article though. What's the existing complaint? Also if education is designed to be conservative, why is it seen as a threat much more by conservatives? Aren't they always complaining about new fangled teaching of evolution/women having the vote/slavery being bad/etc?
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  I think we may be looking at the same thing from two very different perspectives and that is perfectly fine. << What's the existing complaint? Hmm, where do you want to start? There is a reason beyond pure propaganda that makes two sides of US political spectrum ( I do not believe it is that simple, but I am simplifying for the sake of the argument ) opt for private instead of public whenever it is a viable option. Why is that? Is everyone racist/classist/elitist? Obviously, the answer is not simple for anyone willing to consider the reality for what it is. But lets start back at the beginning. What is the complaint? Right now, it is the simple fact that parents are not just not being listened to; not just not being heard; not just being ignored. They are actively being treated as a threat to the system. Is that acceptable?
  - mavhc 5y ago
    All parents, or some? Some parents are a threat to the system, the crazy ones. Of course you individually choose private school if you can afford it, as an individual choice that's the sensible option. Problem in USA is schools are funded by house taxes, so poor areas get poorly funded schools.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
      Now this is interesting. Word "some" is very subjective and 'all' conveniently limits the conversation to the 'crazy' ones. Would you be more willing to put it in a more defined way-- say in percentage? How much, in your estimate, is a threat? Who are the crazy ones and, perhaps more importantly, who are the sane ones? I don't want to put words in your mouth. I want to understand how you view the world around you.
      - mavhc 5y ago
        Well, I assume that 99% of parents don't care enough to participate. Then you have the crazy people who hate evolution/slavery is bad/vaccines/masks/wifi And, one assumes, there's some people making valid points that don't get any media attention. Seems like it's something there'd be a record of in minutes of meetings, even if there's no statistics about it.
        A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
        <<Well, I assume that 99% of parents don't care enough to participate. I don't really agree. I am sure there are people, who cannot participate due working multiple jobs, other obligations and so on. But you did put a number on it. Based on your estimate, the crazy is less than 1% percent of parents. <<Then you have the crazy people who hate evolution/slavery is bad/vaccines/masks/wifi They can hate all they want, but how does that change facts? I don't think reasonable people disagree slavery was bad ( it was -- and I will sound a little flippant here -- I think disagreement is over whether everything is racist, which is a very different can of worms ). I know that it is easy to dismiss and write them off as crazy/stupid/what have you, but if they come to those meetings, when 99% of parents don't care, isn't it more important to address those the worries of those that do? Even if they yell.. so what? Let them vent. It is de-escalation 101. I will go even further. Especially, if they are crazy, it is extra important to talk to them just in case you get through to one of them. What you do not want to do, which is what seems to a popular sport these days, is escalate to the point cops get called in. <<And, one assumes, there's some people making valid points that don't get any media attention. Seems like it's something there'd be a record of in minutes of meetings, even if there's no statistics about it. Here we can actually agree and as a future 1% I simply cannot wait to read previous meeting's minutes.
jaybrendansmith 5y ago
It appears the original article is dismissing the very idea of public education by using a set of cherry-picked opinions and quotes that seem to indicate the intent of public education is to turn us all into a bunch of human robots, subservient to the will of our corporate masters. Does anyone on this chat feel that way about themselves? I certainly don't. And having watched my sons go through the system, I can say that they went into it as children, and will come out as responsible men. They accumulated ways of thinking that are systematic and complex, such as arithmetic, algebra, research, logical reasoned arguments, programming, and similar. This entire time they've been absorbing TikTok, yes, but also 1000x of excellent YouTube videos on history, science, and many other subjects. So what is the point of this article? Have we all had our creativity beaten out of us? Would we have been otherwise more successful? Perhaps the cultural revolutions in the 60s were aspects of the public education system breaking away from Mann's original intent.

mavhc 5y ago

Less dismissive than the original article though. What's the existing complaint? Also if education is designed to be conservative, why is it seen as a threat much more by conservatives? Aren't they always complaining about new fangled teaching of evolution/women having the vote/slavery being bad/etc?

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
I think we may be looking at the same thing from two very different perspectives and that is perfectly fine. << What's the existing complaint? Hmm, where do you want to start? There is a reason beyond pure propaganda that makes two sides of US political spectrum ( I do not believe it is that simple, but I am simplifying for the sake of the argument ) opt for private instead of public whenever it is a viable option. Why is that? Is everyone racist/classist/elitist? Obviously, the answer is not simple for anyone willing to consider the reality for what it is. But lets start back at the beginning. What is the complaint? Right now, it is the simple fact that parents are not just not being listened to; not just not being heard; not just being ignored. They are actively being treated as a threat to the system. Is that acceptable?
- mavhc 5y ago
  All parents, or some? Some parents are a threat to the system, the crazy ones. Of course you individually choose private school if you can afford it, as an individual choice that's the sensible option. Problem in USA is schools are funded by house taxes, so poor areas get poorly funded schools.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
    Now this is interesting. Word "some" is very subjective and 'all' conveniently limits the conversation to the 'crazy' ones. Would you be more willing to put it in a more defined way-- say in percentage? How much, in your estimate, is a threat? Who are the crazy ones and, perhaps more importantly, who are the sane ones? I don't want to put words in your mouth. I want to understand how you view the world around you.
    - mavhc 5y ago
      Well, I assume that 99% of parents don't care enough to participate. Then you have the crazy people who hate evolution/slavery is bad/vaccines/masks/wifi And, one assumes, there's some people making valid points that don't get any media attention. Seems like it's something there'd be a record of in minutes of meetings, even if there's no statistics about it.
      - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
        <<Well, I assume that 99% of parents don't care enough to participate. I don't really agree. I am sure there are people, who cannot participate due working multiple jobs, other obligations and so on. But you did put a number on it. Based on your estimate, the crazy is less than 1% percent of parents. <<Then you have the crazy people who hate evolution/slavery is bad/vaccines/masks/wifi They can hate all they want, but how does that change facts? I don't think reasonable people disagree slavery was bad ( it was -- and I will sound a little flippant here -- I think disagreement is over whether everything is racist, which is a very different can of worms ). I know that it is easy to dismiss and write them off as crazy/stupid/what have you, but if they come to those meetings, when 99% of parents don't care, isn't it more important to address those the worries of those that do? Even if they yell.. so what? Let them vent. It is de-escalation 101. I will go even further. Especially, if they are crazy, it is extra important to talk to them just in case you get through to one of them. What you do not want to do, which is what seems to a popular sport these days, is escalate to the point cops get called in. <<And, one assumes, there's some people making valid points that don't get any media attention. Seems like it's something there'd be a record of in minutes of meetings, even if there's no statistics about it. Here we can actually agree and as a future 1% I simply cannot wait to read previous meeting's minutes.

jaybrendansmith 5y ago

It appears the original article is dismissing the very idea of public education by using a set of cherry-picked opinions and quotes that seem to indicate the intent of public education is to turn us all into a bunch of human robots, subservient to the will of our corporate masters. Does anyone on this chat feel that way about themselves? I certainly don't. And having watched my sons go through the system, I can say that they went into it as children, and will come out as responsible men. They accumulated ways of thinking that are systematic and complex, such as arithmetic, algebra, research, logical reasoned arguments, programming, and similar. This entire time they've been absorbing TikTok, yes, but also 1000x of excellent YouTube videos on history, science, and many other subjects. So what is the point of this article? Have we all had our creativity beaten out of us? Would we have been otherwise more successful? Perhaps the cultural revolutions in the 60s were aspects of the public education system breaking away from Mann's original intent.