4 ms·

I'm confused, is this only about USA schools? If so why the history lesson about Prussia? Surely many countries would have the same issues then. > Most pupils

by mavhc 5y ago

I'm confused, is this only about USA schools? If so why the history lesson about Prussia? Surely many countries would have the same issues then. > Most pupils are taught collectively rather than individually Err, yeah, because that's cheaper. Anyone want to increase the education budget 10x? > It should be noted that prior to the Civil War, the large majority of Americans were not slaves, indentured servants, nor employees of other people. Yeah, I wish we could go back to the olden days when we grew Intel Core i7 processes on our own farms, much better to be self sufficient > The reason for this being that these parents had the gall to demand a say in their own children’s education, protesting and screaming about curricula and mandates that were implemented unilaterally without their input. If only they'd been to school and learned to communicate without screaming like children. > Can we honestly say that our accelerating funding of education in this country has been the key to prosperity? Yes, yes we can. > The children in public schools who sit down and agree to absorb information are marked as intelligent and tracked as headed for success – the other ones, who critically reject simply parroting and assenting to what is being told of them are labeled stupid and sent on a path for dejection and exclusion with the intent that it should follow them through life. Has anyone ever politely asked a question about something and been sent to detention? > Lying to the public To be fair, the public are a bunch of idiots who'll panic and cause shortages where non exist. In conclusion people in the past said things relevant to the past.

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
> The reason for this being that these parents had the gall to demand a say in their own children’s education, protesting and screaming about curricula and mandates that were implemented unilaterally without their input. If only they'd been to school and learned to communicate without screaming like children. ... > Lying to the public To be fair, the public are a bunch of idiots who'll panic and cause shortages where non exist. In conclusion people in the past said things relevant to the past. ... The tone of the comment is ridiculously dismissive. If you do not address existing complaints, at best, they will fester. The response provided did not address the complaint, but instead opted for ad hominem variant.
- mavhc 5y ago
  Less dismissive than the original article though. What's the existing complaint? Also if education is designed to be conservative, why is it seen as a threat much more by conservatives? Aren't they always complaining about new fangled teaching of evolution/women having the vote/slavery being bad/etc?
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
    I think we may be looking at the same thing from two very different perspectives and that is perfectly fine. << What's the existing complaint? Hmm, where do you want to start? There is a reason beyond pure propaganda that makes two sides of US political spectrum ( I do not believe it is that simple, but I am simplifying for the sake of the argument ) opt for private instead of public whenever it is a viable option. Why is that? Is everyone racist/classist/elitist? Obviously, the answer is not simple for anyone willing to consider the reality for what it is. But lets start back at the beginning. What is the complaint? Right now, it is the simple fact that parents are not just not being listened to; not just not being heard; not just being ignored. They are actively being treated as a threat to the system. Is that acceptable?
    - mavhc 5y ago
      All parents, or some? Some parents are a threat to the system, the crazy ones. Of course you individually choose private school if you can afford it, as an individual choice that's the sensible option. Problem in USA is schools are funded by house taxes, so poor areas get poorly funded schools.
      - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
        Now this is interesting. Word "some" is very subjective and 'all' conveniently limits the conversation to the 'crazy' ones. Would you be more willing to put it in a more defined way-- say in percentage? How much, in your estimate, is a threat? Who are the crazy ones and, perhaps more importantly, who are the sane ones? I don't want to put words in your mouth. I want to understand how you view the world around you.
watwut 5y ago
> Has anyone ever politely asked a question about something and been sent to detention? To be fair, it happens. It takes some time till abusive teacher is figured. But, it does not happen nearly as often as ideologues like to claim it does. The kids who get in trouble in school are way less likely to be critically commenting on world history and way more often interrupting the lesson with completely unrelated remarks. Or are just not handing in work done at all. Or just stay mute when asked question.
programmarchy 5y ago
This post would’ve been better if it stopped after the second word.
Lhiw 5y ago
> Has anyone ever politely asked a question about something and been sent to detention? No but they have for the ensuing argument that occurs when the old bag digs her heels in even when she's wrong.
barry-cotter 5y ago
>> Can we honestly say that our accelerating funding of education in this country has been the key to prosperity? > Yes, yes we can. No, we can't. Where Has All the Education Gone? Cross-national data show no association between increases in human capital attributable to the rising educational attainment of the labor force and the rate of growth of output per worker. This implies that the association of educational capital growth with conventional measures of total factor production is large, strongly statistically significant, and negative. https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/bitstream/handle/10986/17434/773740JRN020010l0the0Education0Gone.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/bitstream/handle/10986/1...
- xwolfi 5y ago
  As an anti-american I d love if you were right, but the US is still overweight in many things we would like to take over and I learned latin at school, speak two languages fluently, work in an investment bank in Hong Kong and I STILL see friends jumping to emigrate there... When will this fail finally :( Are you sure it's THAT bad ? Should we really continue resisting the US education model that seems to create an endless stream of indebted compliant morons rather than the non productive philosophers we build everywhere else ?
- notahacker 5y ago
  From the conclusion "None of the arguments in this article suggest that governments should invest less in basic schooling, for many reasons" The main part of the article deals with the fact that microeconomic data strongly supports returns to educational yet cross sectional comparisoms of countries don't. The author prefers structural differences to labour forces meaning some countries make better use of their educated workforce to signalling arguments. It's going to take stronger evidence from a paper making stronger claims than that to convince people that the US would be the same place if educational investment was at the pre public education level when most kids didn't learn to read or perform basic arithmetic.
- mavhc 5y ago
  The modern world wasn't built on geniuses with no education. Even if 90% of people don't benefit, 10% do, invent new stuff, and the 90% benefit from that. Also you have to factor in competition, if you don't educate your population another country will and leave you with the low paying jobs. We should be educating people their entire lives, 1 day a week at school to learn things that were invented after you left school.
avgcorrection 5y ago
Layer on the sarcasm enough and you get an actual argument, some believe. What a bunch of modernist drivel.

by mavhc 5y ago

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago

> The reason for this being that these parents had the gall to demand a say in their own children’s education, protesting and screaming about curricula and mandates that were implemented unilaterally without their input. If only they'd been to school and learned to communicate without screaming like children. ... > Lying to the public To be fair, the public are a bunch of idiots who'll panic and cause shortages where non exist. In conclusion people in the past said things relevant to the past. ... The tone of the comment is ridiculously dismissive. If you do not address existing complaints, at best, they will fester. The response provided did not address the complaint, but instead opted for ad hominem variant.

mavhc 5y ago
Less dismissive than the original article though. What's the existing complaint? Also if education is designed to be conservative, why is it seen as a threat much more by conservatives? Aren't they always complaining about new fangled teaching of evolution/women having the vote/slavery being bad/etc?
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  I think we may be looking at the same thing from two very different perspectives and that is perfectly fine. << What's the existing complaint? Hmm, where do you want to start? There is a reason beyond pure propaganda that makes two sides of US political spectrum ( I do not believe it is that simple, but I am simplifying for the sake of the argument ) opt for private instead of public whenever it is a viable option. Why is that? Is everyone racist/classist/elitist? Obviously, the answer is not simple for anyone willing to consider the reality for what it is. But lets start back at the beginning. What is the complaint? Right now, it is the simple fact that parents are not just not being listened to; not just not being heard; not just being ignored. They are actively being treated as a threat to the system. Is that acceptable?
  - mavhc 5y ago
    All parents, or some? Some parents are a threat to the system, the crazy ones. Of course you individually choose private school if you can afford it, as an individual choice that's the sensible option. Problem in USA is schools are funded by house taxes, so poor areas get poorly funded schools.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
      Now this is interesting. Word "some" is very subjective and 'all' conveniently limits the conversation to the 'crazy' ones. Would you be more willing to put it in a more defined way-- say in percentage? How much, in your estimate, is a threat? Who are the crazy ones and, perhaps more importantly, who are the sane ones? I don't want to put words in your mouth. I want to understand how you view the world around you.

watwut 5y ago

> Has anyone ever politely asked a question about something and been sent to detention? To be fair, it happens. It takes some time till abusive teacher is figured. But, it does not happen nearly as often as ideologues like to claim it does. The kids who get in trouble in school are way less likely to be critically commenting on world history and way more often interrupting the lesson with completely unrelated remarks. Or are just not handing in work done at all. Or just stay mute when asked question.

programmarchy 5y ago

This post would’ve been better if it stopped after the second word.

Lhiw 5y ago

> Has anyone ever politely asked a question about something and been sent to detention? No but they have for the ensuing argument that occurs when the old bag digs her heels in even when she's wrong.

barry-cotter 5y ago

>> Can we honestly say that our accelerating funding of education in this country has been the key to prosperity? > Yes, yes we can. No, we can't. Where Has All the Education Gone? Cross-national data show no association between increases in human capital attributable to the rising educational attainment of the labor force and the rate of growth of output per worker. This implies that the association of educational capital growth with conventional measures of total factor production is large, strongly statistically significant, and negative. https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/bitstream/handle/10986/17434/773740JRN020010l0the0Education0Gone.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/bitstream/handle/10986/1...

xwolfi 5y ago
As an anti-american I d love if you were right, but the US is still overweight in many things we would like to take over and I learned latin at school, speak two languages fluently, work in an investment bank in Hong Kong and I STILL see friends jumping to emigrate there... When will this fail finally :( Are you sure it's THAT bad ? Should we really continue resisting the US education model that seems to create an endless stream of indebted compliant morons rather than the non productive philosophers we build everywhere else ?
notahacker 5y ago
From the conclusion "None of the arguments in this article suggest that governments should invest less in basic schooling, for many reasons" The main part of the article deals with the fact that microeconomic data strongly supports returns to educational yet cross sectional comparisoms of countries don't. The author prefers structural differences to labour forces meaning some countries make better use of their educated workforce to signalling arguments. It's going to take stronger evidence from a paper making stronger claims than that to convince people that the US would be the same place if educational investment was at the pre public education level when most kids didn't learn to read or perform basic arithmetic.
mavhc 5y ago
The modern world wasn't built on geniuses with no education. Even if 90% of people don't benefit, 10% do, invent new stuff, and the 90% benefit from that. Also you have to factor in competition, if you don't educate your population another country will and leave you with the low paying jobs. We should be educating people their entire lives, 1 day a week at school to learn things that were invented after you left school.

avgcorrection 5y ago

Layer on the sarcasm enough and you get an actual argument, some believe. What a bunch of modernist drivel.