3 ms·

>>I've always wondered if we could fix this through legislation that forces manufacturers of consumer goods to provide an estimate of product lifetime according

>>I've always wondered if we could fix this through legislation that forces manufacturers of consumer goods to provide an estimate of product lifetime according to some agreed standard We can, but again, I feel like a lot of customers don't want that. Even here on HN I hear people saying that well, if I want to buy a $200 washing machine that falls apart in 3 years, then it should be my god given right to do so. If consumers want better appliances then they can just buy them without the need for regulation. I don't really agree with that mindset, but I think it's common enough to prevent the change you're talking about.

AussieWog93 5y ago
I'm not arguing that we ban washing machines that break in 3 years, just that they're properly labelled.
- paledot 5y ago
  Why not?
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    Because providing this information to the consumer would be much easier to implement, face much less resistance and have an arguably greater effect (if there's a law saying that every washing machine must last at least 5 years, for example, that doesn't incentivise manufacturers to make something that lasts for 20). Also, to be honest, it just seems "neater" mathematically/economic to not set hard borders anywhere.
jakub_g 5y ago
> if I want to buy a $200 washing machine that falls apart in 3 years, then it should be my god given right to do so The $200 unrepairable washing machine has a massive negative externality for the planet. Most people don't think in those terms (especially when the budget is tight, or they are landlords and just need to put checkmark items in the apartment), that's why we should have strong regulations to prevent mass-creation of electro crap. Regulation is good, because it sets a baseline. W/o regulation it's race to the bottom so if company X does something better but it's $50 more expensive, the cheaper company Y. If you have baseline, they both will figure out a $250 machine which is better. Companies who can't create durable items do not have god given right to exist and sell crap which harms the planet. Thankfully EU has been working on this recently, and will require the vendors to offer N years of spare parts availability. > If consumers want better appliances then they can just buy them without the need for regulation. See above. I have a low-repairability fridge whose rubber-magnet got old. Fix? Replace whole door, which costs as much as the new fridge. I don't think my landlord was taking weeks to research repairability and warranty rules for the fridge, because why would they? The law should provide reasonable defaults. I do hope we'll move towards fewer long-lived models with good repairability, even if it costs more short-term, than 7 new fridge model each years with half-life of 2 years. It's nuts. Another thing we have in EU is power-hungriness of devices (they get labeled prominently A, B, C, D, E). IMO should be the same with warranty / spare parts availability length: One year = E, ten years = A etc.
- mark-r 5y ago
  In the U.S. the manufacturers have figured out that they can make more money selling an "extended warranty" than they can selling the product itself. So the included warranty is as short as they think they can get away with, to encourage you to pony up for the upgrade. It's actually in their best interest for you to believe the item will die the day after the warranty expires.

AussieWog93 5y ago

I'm not arguing that we ban washing machines that break in 3 years, just that they're properly labelled.

paledot 5y ago
Why not?
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  Because providing this information to the consumer would be much easier to implement, face much less resistance and have an arguably greater effect (if there's a law saying that every washing machine must last at least 5 years, for example, that doesn't incentivise manufacturers to make something that lasts for 20). Also, to be honest, it just seems "neater" mathematically/economic to not set hard borders anywhere.

jakub_g 5y ago

> if I want to buy a $200 washing machine that falls apart in 3 years, then it should be my god given right to do so The $200 unrepairable washing machine has a massive negative externality for the planet. Most people don't think in those terms (especially when the budget is tight, or they are landlords and just need to put checkmark items in the apartment), that's why we should have strong regulations to prevent mass-creation of electro crap. Regulation is good, because it sets a baseline. W/o regulation it's race to the bottom so if company X does something better but it's $50 more expensive, the cheaper company Y. If you have baseline, they both will figure out a $250 machine which is better. Companies who can't create durable items do not have god given right to exist and sell crap which harms the planet. Thankfully EU has been working on this recently, and will require the vendors to offer N years of spare parts availability. > If consumers want better appliances then they can just buy them without the need for regulation. See above. I have a low-repairability fridge whose rubber-magnet got old. Fix? Replace whole door, which costs as much as the new fridge. I don't think my landlord was taking weeks to research repairability and warranty rules for the fridge, because why would they? The law should provide reasonable defaults. I do hope we'll move towards fewer long-lived models with good repairability, even if it costs more short-term, than 7 new fridge model each years with half-life of 2 years. It's nuts. Another thing we have in EU is power-hungriness of devices (they get labeled prominently A, B, C, D, E). IMO should be the same with warranty / spare parts availability length: One year = E, ten years = A etc.

mark-r 5y ago
In the U.S. the manufacturers have figured out that they can make more money selling an "extended warranty" than they can selling the product itself. So the included warranty is as short as they think they can get away with, to encourage you to pony up for the upgrade. It's actually in their best interest for you to believe the item will die the day after the warranty expires.