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There is some confusion in the comments here. Before today, the planes remaining were: F-18 - unit cost is somewhere around $70m F-35 - unit cost is somewher

by dmoy 5y ago

There is some confusion in the comments here. Before today, the planes remaining were: F-18 - unit cost is somewhere around $70m F-35 - unit cost is somewhere around $80m Gripen - unit cost is somewhere around $85m The plane rejected with this announcement is the first one, the F-18. These are made by Boeing, Lockmart, and Saab respectively. This is Canada rejecting the oldest and cheapest plane of the three remaining. I think some people are commenting here by just stating what they want to be true, rather than looking at what's actually happening. Personally I'd rather the whole thing be scrubbed and they spend the $19b on something else. But for now, it looks like they're going to either spend billions on F-35s, or even more expensive Saab Gripens (unless they go with a very old model cheaper Gripen, but I dunno if that'll happen).

mthoms 5y ago
It's not quite that simple. Regarding the Gripen: >During the design process, great priority was placed on facilitating and minimizing aircraft maintenance; in addition to a maintenance-friendly layout, many subsystems and components require little or no maintenance at all. [...] According to Saab, the Gripen provides "50% lower operating costs than its best competitor". >A 2012 Jane's Aerospace and Defense Consulting study compared the operational costs of a number of modern combat aircraft, concluding that Gripen had the lowest cost per flight hour (CPFH) when fuel used, pre-flight preparation and repair, and scheduled airfield-level maintenance together with associated personnel costs were combined. The Gripen had an estimated CPFH of US$4,700 whereas the next lowest, the F-16 Block 40/50, had a 49% higher CPFH at $7,000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen#Usability_and_maintenance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen#Usability_a... I'll admit I don't know all the ins and outs here, but I do know that "unit cost" is not the same as "final price tag".
- riku_iki 5y ago
  > the F-16 Block 40/50, had a 49% higher CPFH at $7,000 and F-35 is probably around $30k/h
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    It's at 33k/h right now.
    - riku_iki 5y ago
      So, given usually life of aircraft is around 10k hours, difference between 5k and 33k is very large: 10000*(33000-5000) = 280M
Mikeb85 5y ago
Where are you getting these numbers? Most have the Gripen at $30-60 million, depending on specs and things.
- bdamm 5y ago
  In what currency?
jollybean 5y ago
'Total Cost of Ownership' not 'Unit Cost'.
throwawaymanbot 5y ago
The Gripens expense per hour of flight is roughly 1/2 - 1/5th of the other 2. That's where the Gripens savings come in.

by dmoy 5y ago

mthoms 5y ago

It's not quite that simple. Regarding the Gripen: >During the design process, great priority was placed on facilitating and minimizing aircraft maintenance; in addition to a maintenance-friendly layout, many subsystems and components require little or no maintenance at all. [...] According to Saab, the Gripen provides "50% lower operating costs than its best competitor". >A 2012 Jane's Aerospace and Defense Consulting study compared the operational costs of a number of modern combat aircraft, concluding that Gripen had the lowest cost per flight hour (CPFH) when fuel used, pre-flight preparation and repair, and scheduled airfield-level maintenance together with associated personnel costs were combined. The Gripen had an estimated CPFH of US$4,700 whereas the next lowest, the F-16 Block 40/50, had a 49% higher CPFH at $7,000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen#Usability_and_maintenance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen#Usability_a... I'll admit I don't know all the ins and outs here, but I do know that "unit cost" is not the same as "final price tag".

riku_iki 5y ago
> the F-16 Block 40/50, had a 49% higher CPFH at $7,000 and F-35 is probably around $30k/h
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  It's at 33k/h right now.
  - riku_iki 5y ago
    So, given usually life of aircraft is around 10k hours, difference between 5k and 33k is very large: 10000*(33000-5000) = 280M

Mikeb85 5y ago

Where are you getting these numbers? Most have the Gripen at $30-60 million, depending on specs and things.

bdamm 5y ago
In what currency?

jollybean 5y ago

'Total Cost of Ownership' not 'Unit Cost'.

throwawaymanbot 5y ago

The Gripens expense per hour of flight is roughly 1/2 - 1/5th of the other 2. That's where the Gripens savings come in.