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Hindsight is 20/20. Nuanced toolbox for the real world > absolutist myopia. Whenever someone claims years of experience, they've given up on mastery. Native

Hindsight is 20/20. Nuanced toolbox for the real world > absolutist myopia. Whenever someone claims years of experience, they've given up on mastery. Native produces better, faster apps than introducing abstraction layers. Electron and Atom are resource hogs that force you into wasting resources. Appcelerator, Phone Gap, Gtk+, and Qt are for when you don't have the time or money to make something quality. Saying NFS isn't used anymore is ridiculous. Modern NFS 4.2 with pNFS features is badass.

p2t2p 5y ago
> Electron and Atom are resource hogs that force you into wasting resources You can repeat it as much as you want but poke any modern laptop, how many native apps and how many electron apps are there? Spotify, VSCode, bunch of note taking stuff, trello for desktop? And those that are not electron-based, they are simply running in browser. In other words - who cares what you think about performance? > Saying NFS isn't used anymore is ridiculous. Modern NFS 4.2 with pNFS features is badass. Again, nobody cares that you think it is badass. My work is still on NFS 3-something because NFS 4 introduced performance issues and restrictions that make it impossible to use. And you know the way to upgrade? Yeah, get rid of NFS and develop a cluster of independent agents that talk over grpc.
- forgotmypw17 5y ago
  Yeah, and as the user of an older, "underpowered" device, I'm excluded from all these "modern" apps because they either freeze up as a desktop app or freeze up as a JS app with no fallback, and I'm unable to participate in many of the groups which use them for communicating. But, of course, who cares about me, I should just buy a new computer, right?
  - p2t2p 5y ago
    > But, of course, who cares about me, I should just buy a new computer, right? Unfortunately it is not only you. _A lot_ of my employer's customers complain about frontend performance and the fact that the UI is generally made with assumption of fairly large display (almost everyone in the company has got 27"+ monitor whilst our customers are often on 2-3 years old business-versions of Lenovo or something similar with 14 inch of screen and 8gb of RAM top). And yes, that's right, who cares. People like you are minority (people on phones are majority), people in enterprise settings don't have a voice and choice, and economy drives everyone towards using web stacks. Also I guess my expression wasn't exactly clear. What I'm trying to convey is that technical superiority doesn't matter and users don't care about technical superiority. They care that music plays right away when they tap "play". And it is way easier to deliver that experience using web stack than any kind of native stuff.
    - forgotmypw17 5y ago
      >People like you are minority Disregard for minorities is generally frowned upon by human societies, isn't it? >And it is way easier to deliver that experience using web stack than any kind of native stuff. I think it's totally doable to build something performant using a web-based "stack" if the stack itself doesn't weigh more than five elephants.
      - p2t2p 5y ago
        > Disregard for minorities is generally frowned upon by human societies, isn't it? Not really, it is relatively recent development in a limited set of cultures/subcultures. And even in those cultures, it is not just any minority but a marginalised minority. > I think it's totally doable to build something performant Again, no one cares, they are performant enough to deliver experiences they want to deliver and there’s no incentive to do anything “better”. Better in quotes because “better” depends on priorities. Just to clarify, I’m not saying it is good that we’re in that situation. I’m saying that reality is what it is and that I don’t see any stimuli for it to change in near future. Even death of Moore’s law didn’t help
    - errcorrectcode 5y ago
      > 2-3 years old business-versions of Lenovo or something similar with 14 inch of screen and 8gb of RAM top). I have a 4 yo Lenovo 14" T480 with 64 GiB of Samsung RAM, a magnesium top, 4 TiB SSD, quad core 8650i with discrete graphics, internal WiFi 6E, WWAN, and real 10 hour battery life with hot-swappable 72 Wh secondary batteries and an external battery charger. Newer models like the T490 and T14 G1/2 are much less usable, serviceable, and upgradeable. I have a whole stockpile of repair parts so I'm keeping this for years and shunning developer waste.
- errcorrectcode 5y ago
  > Again, nobody cares that you think it is badass. My work is still on NFS 3-something because NFS 4 introduced performance issues and restrictions that make it impossible to use. And you know the way to upgrade? Yeah, get rid of NFS and develop a cluster of independent agents that talk over grpc. You don't know what you're talking about. Grpc isn't a distributed, fault-tolerant filesystem, buddy. Maybe you should be barking up the Lustre or GPFS trees if you actually did HPCC in the real world as I have. You may sit down. Mic drop.

p2t2p 5y ago

> Electron and Atom are resource hogs that force you into wasting resources You can repeat it as much as you want but poke any modern laptop, how many native apps and how many electron apps are there? Spotify, VSCode, bunch of note taking stuff, trello for desktop? And those that are not electron-based, they are simply running in browser. In other words - who cares what you think about performance? > Saying NFS isn't used anymore is ridiculous. Modern NFS 4.2 with pNFS features is badass. Again, nobody cares that you think it is badass. My work is still on NFS 3-something because NFS 4 introduced performance issues and restrictions that make it impossible to use. And you know the way to upgrade? Yeah, get rid of NFS and develop a cluster of independent agents that talk over grpc.

forgotmypw17 5y ago
Yeah, and as the user of an older, "underpowered" device, I'm excluded from all these "modern" apps because they either freeze up as a desktop app or freeze up as a JS app with no fallback, and I'm unable to participate in many of the groups which use them for communicating. But, of course, who cares about me, I should just buy a new computer, right?
- p2t2p 5y ago
  > But, of course, who cares about me, I should just buy a new computer, right? Unfortunately it is not only you. _A lot_ of my employer's customers complain about frontend performance and the fact that the UI is generally made with assumption of fairly large display (almost everyone in the company has got 27"+ monitor whilst our customers are often on 2-3 years old business-versions of Lenovo or something similar with 14 inch of screen and 8gb of RAM top). And yes, that's right, who cares. People like you are minority (people on phones are majority), people in enterprise settings don't have a voice and choice, and economy drives everyone towards using web stacks. Also I guess my expression wasn't exactly clear. What I'm trying to convey is that technical superiority doesn't matter and users don't care about technical superiority. They care that music plays right away when they tap "play". And it is way easier to deliver that experience using web stack than any kind of native stuff.
  - forgotmypw17 5y ago
    >People like you are minority Disregard for minorities is generally frowned upon by human societies, isn't it? >And it is way easier to deliver that experience using web stack than any kind of native stuff. I think it's totally doable to build something performant using a web-based "stack" if the stack itself doesn't weigh more than five elephants.
    - p2t2p 5y ago
      > Disregard for minorities is generally frowned upon by human societies, isn't it? Not really, it is relatively recent development in a limited set of cultures/subcultures. And even in those cultures, it is not just any minority but a marginalised minority. > I think it's totally doable to build something performant Again, no one cares, they are performant enough to deliver experiences they want to deliver and there’s no incentive to do anything “better”. Better in quotes because “better” depends on priorities. Just to clarify, I’m not saying it is good that we’re in that situation. I’m saying that reality is what it is and that I don’t see any stimuli for it to change in near future. Even death of Moore’s law didn’t help
  - errcorrectcode 5y ago
    > 2-3 years old business-versions of Lenovo or something similar with 14 inch of screen and 8gb of RAM top). I have a 4 yo Lenovo 14" T480 with 64 GiB of Samsung RAM, a magnesium top, 4 TiB SSD, quad core 8650i with discrete graphics, internal WiFi 6E, WWAN, and real 10 hour battery life with hot-swappable 72 Wh secondary batteries and an external battery charger. Newer models like the T490 and T14 G1/2 are much less usable, serviceable, and upgradeable. I have a whole stockpile of repair parts so I'm keeping this for years and shunning developer waste.
errcorrectcode 5y ago
> Again, nobody cares that you think it is badass. My work is still on NFS 3-something because NFS 4 introduced performance issues and restrictions that make it impossible to use. And you know the way to upgrade? Yeah, get rid of NFS and develop a cluster of independent agents that talk over grpc. You don't know what you're talking about. Grpc isn't a distributed, fault-tolerant filesystem, buddy. Maybe you should be barking up the Lustre or GPFS trees if you actually did HPCC in the real world as I have. You may sit down. Mic drop.