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Again, the doublethink is amazing. My point is precisely that people in democracies are not forced to trust the govt. They don't have to trust the media, they

Again, the doublethink is amazing. My point is precisely that people in democracies are not forced to trust the govt. They don't have to trust the media, they are totally free. The only context in which your logic makes sense is one in which you believe the govt controls truth. You are living in a mental prison that you created.

pphysch 5y ago
Where is the "doublethink" in pointing out the paradox in distrusting your government yet trusting everything they say about a foreign government? You do realize that "trusted" "unbiased" media outlets like the Reuters, AP, NYT, WaPo literally have State Department/Pentagon censors filtering any material that could be deemed sensitive to "national security"?
- hogFeast 5y ago
  I am baffled how this makes sense to you. You are complaining about the State Department censoring news but imply that the CCP which literally controls all information isn't as bad? Again, you realise that the US being as bad as China doesn't make China good? And, again, the doublethink is being unable to understand that the question of whether you have to trust government makes no sense in the US. You don't have to trust the govt, that is freedom. Indeed, the US govt is constructed on the principle of multiple sources of power so it doesn't even make sense to say that authority arises from one source, there are competing sources of power (ironically, this is what the CCP finds incomprehensible about the US). The US govt does not censor the internet, most of the news sources you cite are not "trusted", people are sceptical of the media, people are sceptical of the govt. The point I am making is that people are unable to sceptical in China because they have no choice, the question you are posing makes no sense in a US context.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - pphysch 5y ago
    Both Chinese and Americans are more or less equally propagandized, the difference is that the Americans don't know it. In China you know that whatever is getting media traction has been de facto approved by the Party. In America you have virtually no idea which special interest group is currently lying to you through the media, and they will never be held accountable.
    - tomatofarmer 5y ago
      American trust in media is 36%. I can assure you the vast majority of Americans are extremely skeptical of what they consume. https://news.gallup.com/poll/355526/americans-trust-media-dips-second-lowest-record.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/355526/americans-trust-media-di...
    - throw10920 5y ago
      > Both Chinese and Americans are more or less equally propagandized This implies that the US government has total control over all domestic news outlets, a great firewall that censors the national internet and helps to find and remove references to embarrassing government incidents, policy that requires all companies to hand over all user data to the state unencrypted without a warrant, and a social credit system that can prevent you from getting a job if you make negative comments about the government's policies. I very much would like to see proof of these things, given that I can do internet searches for atrocities like the Tuskegee Experiment, I've never gotten in any sort of trouble for making negative comments about the government, and I can find many news sources that run extremely conspiratorial articles about the same.
      - pphysch 5y ago
        > This implies... No, it doesn't. Americans are more or less equally propagandized, but in different (and less transparent) ways.
        throw10920 5y ago
        ...which you've provided exactly zero evidence for. Please provide concrete evidence of propaganda that's equal in magnitude to the things described above. Otherwise, yes, it rather does imply, because there are very few things similar to the CCP's social credit system that have the same effect, and even fewer that could be deployed in the US without immediately being noticed.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
    > The point I am making is that people are unable to sceptical in China because they have no choice, the question you are posing makes no sense in a US context. This is staggeringly naive.

pphysch 5y ago

Where is the "doublethink" in pointing out the paradox in distrusting your government yet trusting everything they say about a foreign government? You do realize that "trusted" "unbiased" media outlets like the Reuters, AP, NYT, WaPo literally have State Department/Pentagon censors filtering any material that could be deemed sensitive to "national security"?

hogFeast 5y ago
I am baffled how this makes sense to you. You are complaining about the State Department censoring news but imply that the CCP which literally controls all information isn't as bad? Again, you realise that the US being as bad as China doesn't make China good? And, again, the doublethink is being unable to understand that the question of whether you have to trust government makes no sense in the US. You don't have to trust the govt, that is freedom. Indeed, the US govt is constructed on the principle of multiple sources of power so it doesn't even make sense to say that authority arises from one source, there are competing sources of power (ironically, this is what the CCP finds incomprehensible about the US). The US govt does not censor the internet, most of the news sources you cite are not "trusted", people are sceptical of the media, people are sceptical of the govt. The point I am making is that people are unable to sceptical in China because they have no choice, the question you are posing makes no sense in a US context.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pphysch 5y ago
  Both Chinese and Americans are more or less equally propagandized, the difference is that the Americans don't know it. In China you know that whatever is getting media traction has been de facto approved by the Party. In America you have virtually no idea which special interest group is currently lying to you through the media, and they will never be held accountable.
  - tomatofarmer 5y ago
    American trust in media is 36%. I can assure you the vast majority of Americans are extremely skeptical of what they consume. https://news.gallup.com/poll/355526/americans-trust-media-dips-second-lowest-record.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/355526/americans-trust-media-di...
  - throw10920 5y ago
    > Both Chinese and Americans are more or less equally propagandized This implies that the US government has total control over all domestic news outlets, a great firewall that censors the national internet and helps to find and remove references to embarrassing government incidents, policy that requires all companies to hand over all user data to the state unencrypted without a warrant, and a social credit system that can prevent you from getting a job if you make negative comments about the government's policies. I very much would like to see proof of these things, given that I can do internet searches for atrocities like the Tuskegee Experiment, I've never gotten in any sort of trouble for making negative comments about the government, and I can find many news sources that run extremely conspiratorial articles about the same.
    - pphysch 5y ago
      > This implies... No, it doesn't. Americans are more or less equally propagandized, but in different (and less transparent) ways.
      - throw10920 5y ago
        ...which you've provided exactly zero evidence for. Please provide concrete evidence of propaganda that's equal in magnitude to the things described above. Otherwise, yes, it rather does imply, because there are very few things similar to the CCP's social credit system that have the same effect, and even fewer that could be deployed in the US without immediately being noticed.
- TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
  > The point I am making is that people are unable to sceptical in China because they have no choice, the question you are posing makes no sense in a US context. This is staggeringly naive.