4 ms·

J&J (and AZ) is a vectored vaccine, but also delivering the spike protein. Spike was chosen because it is crucial to the entry of the virus to the cell, and so

J&J (and AZ) is a vectored vaccine, but also delivering the spike protein. Spike was chosen because it is crucial to the entry of the virus to the cell, and so should be relatively well conserved. Certainly seems to be the case with Delta - but apparently not this new variant. My understanding is that disease induced immunity can be a bit patchy - if your body develops antibodies to a conserved region, or a wide range, then fine. If to a region that is presented only on the particular virus that infected you, then you may still be vulnerable to further infections. It has been found that vaccination after infection gives perhaps the best immunity - as if the vaccine focuses the previously too broad immune response somehow.

EGreg 5y ago
The word “perhaps” is perhaps wrong The largest studies have shown the opposite — natural immunity is far more robust and long-lasting (but perhaps more variable in the population — which is why they want everyone to be vaccinated, even if they just recovered from a severe case of the virus last week - it’s ridiculous).
- sammalloy 5y ago
  That’s a GOP talking point, not science. The science says the opposite: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/23/should-you-get-vaccinated-if-you-had-covid-natural-immunity-explained.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/23/should-you-get-vaccinated-if... > And even if you have lots of natural immunity, getting vaccinated significantly boosts your chances of staying healthy, according to data published last month by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The agency studied more than 7,000 people, and found that unvaccinated people who’d recovered from Covid were five times as likely to catch it again, compared to people who got two doses of an mRNA vaccine from Pfizer or Moderna. […] > Combining vaccination with natural immunity gives you a “hybrid immunity,” which provides even more protection than vaccination alone — sending your antibody levels to “astronomical levels that outpace what you get from two doses of vaccine alone,” Rishi Goel, an immunologist at the University of Pennsylvania, told Nature last month.
  - EGreg 5y ago
    Seems a lot of science around the world is controlled by the US GOP eh https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-im... https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-on... https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/natural-immunity-after-covid-19-found-durable-and-robust https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/natural-immunity-after... https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02795-x https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02795-x https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/10/18/prior-covid-infection-is-as-effective-at-preventing-the-virus-as-vaccination-uk-study-suggests/amp/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/10/18/prior-c... This is concluded in the most prestigious scientific journals including: Nature Cell Science Scientific American and preprints on Medrhiv When the LARGEST studies in Israel and UK bear this out — so what if the outcomes of the largest studies are a talking point for someone?
    - sammalloy 5y ago
      You’re repeatedly posting and appealing to old discredited claims that have been evaluated as /false/ by the medical community. https://healthfeedback.org/evaluation/misleading-wall-street-journal-opinion-piece-makes-the-unsubstantiated-claim-that-the-u-s-will-have-herd-immunity-by-april-2021/ https://healthfeedback.org/evaluation/misleading-wall-street... It’s really sad that you are expending this much effort pushing and promoting fringe medical ideas that have no consensus. “Natural immunity” is the rallying cry of the anti-vax movement, and it’s been wholly discredited. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/05/anti-vaxxers-have-a-dangerous-theory-called-natural-immunity-now-its-going-mainstream/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/05/anti-vaxxers-ha...
  - dham 5y ago
    > Combining vaccination with natural immunity gives you a “hybrid immunity,” which provides even more protection than vaccination alone No that's cutting edge science hypothesis. Geez why are people posting that like it's a fact. Most of all this stuff is cutting edge. There's a danger that the vaccine can override natural immunity which is...not ideal
- erhk 5y ago
  Please get vaccinated.
- somewhereoutth 5y ago
  *disease induced immunity and some sources would be nice for your claim.
erhk 5y ago
What does region mean in this context? A region of the body? Antigen binding? Your statement on future infections by a distinct antigen than you were immunized for is objectively true. A vaccine is not a panacea for all viruses. If I prepare my home for a flood then I shouldn't expect an earthquake to be stopped. If we are making the case that a surface protein is too targetted then I would point towards the seasonality of the flu.
- somewhereoutth 5y ago
  Region of the virus - e.g. capsid, spike etc. Even within a variant such as Delta there are sub-lineages with slight differences. Most diffences make no difference to the transmissibility etc of the virus, so can arise (and disappear) fairly randomly. If your immune system preferentially produces antibodies to proteins on the virus encoded by such a difference, then the next COVID virus it encounters may not have these proteins, and so your antibodies won't bind.

EGreg 5y ago

The word “perhaps” is perhaps wrong The largest studies have shown the opposite — natural immunity is far more robust and long-lasting (but perhaps more variable in the population — which is why they want everyone to be vaccinated, even if they just recovered from a severe case of the virus last week - it’s ridiculous).

sammalloy 5y ago
That’s a GOP talking point, not science. The science says the opposite: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/23/should-you-get-vaccinated-if-you-had-covid-natural-immunity-explained.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/23/should-you-get-vaccinated-if... > And even if you have lots of natural immunity, getting vaccinated significantly boosts your chances of staying healthy, according to data published last month by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The agency studied more than 7,000 people, and found that unvaccinated people who’d recovered from Covid were five times as likely to catch it again, compared to people who got two doses of an mRNA vaccine from Pfizer or Moderna. […] > Combining vaccination with natural immunity gives you a “hybrid immunity,” which provides even more protection than vaccination alone — sending your antibody levels to “astronomical levels that outpace what you get from two doses of vaccine alone,” Rishi Goel, an immunologist at the University of Pennsylvania, told Nature last month.
- EGreg 5y ago
  Seems a lot of science around the world is controlled by the US GOP eh https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-im... https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-on... https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/natural-immunity-after-covid-19-found-durable-and-robust https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/natural-immunity-after... https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02795-x https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02795-x https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/10/18/prior-covid-infection-is-as-effective-at-preventing-the-virus-as-vaccination-uk-study-suggests/amp/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/10/18/prior-c... This is concluded in the most prestigious scientific journals including: Nature Cell Science Scientific American and preprints on Medrhiv When the LARGEST studies in Israel and UK bear this out — so what if the outcomes of the largest studies are a talking point for someone?
  - sammalloy 5y ago
    You’re repeatedly posting and appealing to old discredited claims that have been evaluated as /false/ by the medical community. https://healthfeedback.org/evaluation/misleading-wall-street-journal-opinion-piece-makes-the-unsubstantiated-claim-that-the-u-s-will-have-herd-immunity-by-april-2021/ https://healthfeedback.org/evaluation/misleading-wall-street... It’s really sad that you are expending this much effort pushing and promoting fringe medical ideas that have no consensus. “Natural immunity” is the rallying cry of the anti-vax movement, and it’s been wholly discredited. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/05/anti-vaxxers-have-a-dangerous-theory-called-natural-immunity-now-its-going-mainstream/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/05/anti-vaxxers-ha...
- dham 5y ago
  > Combining vaccination with natural immunity gives you a “hybrid immunity,” which provides even more protection than vaccination alone No that's cutting edge science hypothesis. Geez why are people posting that like it's a fact. Most of all this stuff is cutting edge. There's a danger that the vaccine can override natural immunity which is...not ideal
erhk 5y ago
Please get vaccinated.
somewhereoutth 5y ago
*disease induced immunity and some sources would be nice for your claim.

erhk 5y ago

What does region mean in this context? A region of the body? Antigen binding? Your statement on future infections by a distinct antigen than you were immunized for is objectively true. A vaccine is not a panacea for all viruses. If I prepare my home for a flood then I shouldn't expect an earthquake to be stopped. If we are making the case that a surface protein is too targetted then I would point towards the seasonality of the flu.

somewhereoutth 5y ago
Region of the virus - e.g. capsid, spike etc. Even within a variant such as Delta there are sub-lineages with slight differences. Most diffences make no difference to the transmissibility etc of the virus, so can arise (and disappear) fairly randomly. If your immune system preferentially produces antibodies to proteins on the virus encoded by such a difference, then the next COVID virus it encounters may not have these proteins, and so your antibodies won't bind.