5 ms·

This again reminds that having all your own population gotten 3rd jab (or n-th jab) won't make the pandemic disappear. Meanwhile rest of the world hasn't got t

This again reminds that having all your own population gotten 3rd jab (or n-th jab) won't make the pandemic disappear. Meanwhile rest of the world hasn't got their first dose of a reliable vaccine.

sjwalter 5y ago
Is there a reliable vaccine? I mean one that's reliable for longer than a few months. A lot of folks are still unaware that e.g., the Pfizer vaccine wanes to ~20% relative risk reduction after only 5 months[1]. This down from the unrestrained silliness of "100% SAFE AND EFFECTIVE" as the corporate press stated when the vaccines were rolling out. There is no way in hell these vaccines can end the pandemic. [1] "Effectiveness declined gradually thereafter, with the decline accelerating after the fourth month to reach approximately 20% in months 5 through 7 after the second dose." https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114114 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114114
- julieturner99 5y ago
  The evidence isn't yet in for immunity persistence post-booster, with Pfizer or Moderna. There's a chance that immunity wanes less quickly with the booster's 6 month+ window vs the original 2nd shot's 3 week window. Of course, if a mutation evades the vaccine's design then it doesn't matter much, but for the moment I'm hopeful that 5 months out from a booster is still a relatively high protection %.
- podgaj 5y ago
  The fact that a truthful, fact based comment like this gets downvoted tells me that you all are just scared and cannot a=handle the truth. These are leaky vaccines. That does not mean there is anything wrong with them. They are just leaky, They will not end the pandemic or endemic. The flu vaccine is another leaky vaccine: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/truth-about-flu-shot-it-may-not-always-prevent-illness-ncna854456 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/truth-about-flu-shot-i...
- jhedwards 5y ago
  "...protection against hospitalization and death persisted at a robust level for 6 months after the second dose" (from the above linked article) This is the important part in my opinion and I've heard it explained thus: the level of antibodies circulating in the body goes down after six months, so you may be susceptible to infection. However, the immune system creates something called "memory cells" which live in the lymphatic system and will activate a robust immune response if they come into contact with the antigen again.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - erhk 5y ago
    Its also pretty challenging to publish research longer than 6 months when you only have 6 calendar months...
  - native_samples 5y ago
    That's how it's meant to work. If that were true you wouldn't be seeing so many people getting COVID after being vaccinated. In reality all these explanations we're being given are nearly junk value. Public health researchers don't understand the immune system or mRNA based vaccines well enough to predict things like how it adapts or learns, and in particular they just ignore any factor that they don't have a fast/cheap test for (or sometimes any test).
    - jhedwards 5y ago
      Memory cells do not prevent infection, they live in the lymphatic system and are only activated if a pathogen gets past the "innate immune system" and gets to the point we typically refer to as "infection". So, to re-use your phrase: if that were true we'd be seeing vaccinated people getting infected but recovering quickly and generally not dying, which is exactly what we see.
- kruxigt 5y ago
  "BNT162b2-induced protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection appeared to wane rapidly following its peak after the second dose, but protection against hospitalization and death persisted at a robust level for 6 months after the second dose. (Funded by Weill Cornell Medicine–Qatar and others.)" Just to be clear. The protection from severe sickness, which is what is promised for the vaccines, did persist.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  What's wrong with taking a vaccine booster every 3 months or so? I'll gladly do it to get more normalcy. Production is being ramped up a lot so this kind of volume shouldn't be any issue soon.
  - majewsky 5y ago
    I don't expect a schedule that tight, mostly because infections naturally wane in the summer months anyway. My (un)educated guess is that it will be rolled into the flu vaccine at some point and become a once-a-year occasion.
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      Well here in the local news they were saying that it really starts waning at 6 months and the EU is planning to reduce the validity of the certificate to 9 months because of that. So I do expect it to be a 6-monthly affair. But probably just one shot every time because it's a booster. But I'd be ok with every 3 months too though I agree there should be no need for it. I'm high risk and my work did an antibody test after 3 months, and I was full of antibodies still at that point.
fma 5y ago
"South Africa has asked Johnson & Johnson (JNJ.N) and Pfizer (PFE.N) to delay delivery of COVID-19 vaccines because it now has too much stock, health ministry officials said, as vaccine hesitancy slows an inoculation campaign." https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/exclusive-south-africa-delays-covid-vaccine-deliveries-inoculations-slow-2021-11-24/ https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/exclusive-south-africa-... If rest of the world don't want it, I'll take it (and did).
- Aachen 5y ago
  South Africa is one of the most developed countries in Africa though. World vaccination rate is something like 40% and it's not 60% anti-vaxxers.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  Denmark was able to offer vacines to everybody because Rumania didn't want them.

This again reminds that having all your own population gotten 3rd jab (or n-th jab) won't make the pandemic disappear. Meanwhile rest of the world hasn't got their first dose of a reliable vaccine.

sjwalter 5y ago

Is there a reliable vaccine? I mean one that's reliable for longer than a few months. A lot of folks are still unaware that e.g., the Pfizer vaccine wanes to ~20% relative risk reduction after only 5 months[1]. This down from the unrestrained silliness of "100% SAFE AND EFFECTIVE" as the corporate press stated when the vaccines were rolling out. There is no way in hell these vaccines can end the pandemic. [1] "Effectiveness declined gradually thereafter, with the decline accelerating after the fourth month to reach approximately 20% in months 5 through 7 after the second dose." https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114114 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114114

julieturner99 5y ago
The evidence isn't yet in for immunity persistence post-booster, with Pfizer or Moderna. There's a chance that immunity wanes less quickly with the booster's 6 month+ window vs the original 2nd shot's 3 week window. Of course, if a mutation evades the vaccine's design then it doesn't matter much, but for the moment I'm hopeful that 5 months out from a booster is still a relatively high protection %.
podgaj 5y ago
The fact that a truthful, fact based comment like this gets downvoted tells me that you all are just scared and cannot a=handle the truth. These are leaky vaccines. That does not mean there is anything wrong with them. They are just leaky, They will not end the pandemic or endemic. The flu vaccine is another leaky vaccine: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/truth-about-flu-shot-it-may-not-always-prevent-illness-ncna854456 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/truth-about-flu-shot-i...
jhedwards 5y ago
"...protection against hospitalization and death persisted at a robust level for 6 months after the second dose" (from the above linked article) This is the important part in my opinion and I've heard it explained thus: the level of antibodies circulating in the body goes down after six months, so you may be susceptible to infection. However, the immune system creates something called "memory cells" which live in the lymphatic system and will activate a robust immune response if they come into contact with the antigen again.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- erhk 5y ago
  Its also pretty challenging to publish research longer than 6 months when you only have 6 calendar months...
- native_samples 5y ago
  That's how it's meant to work. If that were true you wouldn't be seeing so many people getting COVID after being vaccinated. In reality all these explanations we're being given are nearly junk value. Public health researchers don't understand the immune system or mRNA based vaccines well enough to predict things like how it adapts or learns, and in particular they just ignore any factor that they don't have a fast/cheap test for (or sometimes any test).
  - jhedwards 5y ago
    Memory cells do not prevent infection, they live in the lymphatic system and are only activated if a pathogen gets past the "innate immune system" and gets to the point we typically refer to as "infection". So, to re-use your phrase: if that were true we'd be seeing vaccinated people getting infected but recovering quickly and generally not dying, which is exactly what we see.
kruxigt 5y ago
"BNT162b2-induced protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection appeared to wane rapidly following its peak after the second dose, but protection against hospitalization and death persisted at a robust level for 6 months after the second dose. (Funded by Weill Cornell Medicine–Qatar and others.)" Just to be clear. The protection from severe sickness, which is what is promised for the vaccines, did persist.
GekkePrutser 5y ago
What's wrong with taking a vaccine booster every 3 months or so? I'll gladly do it to get more normalcy. Production is being ramped up a lot so this kind of volume shouldn't be any issue soon.
- majewsky 5y ago
  I don't expect a schedule that tight, mostly because infections naturally wane in the summer months anyway. My (un)educated guess is that it will be rolled into the flu vaccine at some point and become a once-a-year occasion.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Well here in the local news they were saying that it really starts waning at 6 months and the EU is planning to reduce the validity of the certificate to 9 months because of that. So I do expect it to be a 6-monthly affair. But probably just one shot every time because it's a booster. But I'd be ok with every 3 months too though I agree there should be no need for it. I'm high risk and my work did an antibody test after 3 months, and I was full of antibodies still at that point.

fma 5y ago

"South Africa has asked Johnson & Johnson (JNJ.N) and Pfizer (PFE.N) to delay delivery of COVID-19 vaccines because it now has too much stock, health ministry officials said, as vaccine hesitancy slows an inoculation campaign." https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/exclusive-south-africa-delays-covid-vaccine-deliveries-inoculations-slow-2021-11-24/ https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/exclusive-south-africa-... If rest of the world don't want it, I'll take it (and did).

Aachen 5y ago
South Africa is one of the most developed countries in Africa though. World vaccination rate is something like 40% and it's not 60% anti-vaxxers.
tomjen3 5y ago
Denmark was able to offer vacines to everybody because Rumania didn't want them.