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> You should reflect on how much effort you spend defending such a regime all over this website (...) Wow, you're right about that. I thought you might have be

> You should reflect on how much effort you spend defending such a regime all over this website (...) Wow, you're right about that. I thought you might have been saying it as an offhand comment, but I just looked through the 4 most recent pages of FooBarWidget's comments and only 2 comments of those listed were not directly defending or espousing CCP talking points. Potential shill? edit: Their earlier comments have a higher 'normal' to shill-esque ratio, but the greater majority of their comments that I have seen are shill-like.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sudosysgen 5y ago
That's perfectly normal. If you're going to be accused of being a shill you might as well silo your accounts into one for serious matter and one everyone is going to adhominem into extinction.
- Tostino 5y ago
  I know it's not kosher here to accuse others of shilling, but you are acting like it doesn't happen. It absolutely does, all the time. Less on HN than other social media, maybe, but this place is far from immune.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    I'm sure it happens in the abstract. They're definitely not a shill though. As far as we've seen China has no shill operation outside of its borders outside of bots and some vote manipulation by Chinese companies for profit.
    - tomatofarmer 5y ago
      He may not be a paid shill, but he is not arguing from a position of sincerity. FooBarWidget is far too intelligent to actually believe half of what he's saying, especially his claim that 98% of Chinese citizens are happy with their government. That number is absurdly high. For reference, trust in government is 84% in Switzerland (highest in the OECD), 65% in Germany, 46% in the US, 42% in Japan, 35% in the UK. Even if the source of the claim is the WaPo, such an outlier deserves extreme scrutiny. https://data.oecd.org/gga/trust-in-government.htm https://data.oecd.org/gga/trust-in-government.htm Edit: Those conducting the survey probably experienced reactions similar to this: https://vimeo.com/44078865 https://vimeo.com/44078865
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        I agree that 98% is too high, but 90% is not unreasonable. There is no country in the world off the top of my head where the quality of life has improved more than in China. Additionally the Chinese government has a very skillful tactic where they make the local government much more accountable via the central government but charges it of all the unpopular things. That way it gets credit for the good while the local government is blamed for the bad. It's quite smart actually. His data probably comes from this research : https://ash.harvard.edu/publications/understanding-ccp-resilience-surveying-chinese-public-opinion-through-time https://ash.harvard.edu/publications/understanding-ccp-resil... The data comes from in-person interviews. One may think that they were scared of saying bad things but plenty of negative feedback was received, they just reported that most issues were solved and were happy with the progress. I the conclusion of dishonesty was much too quick.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        xxpor 5y ago
        Obviously older, but Japan and South Korea have probably improved even more if we look since the end of WW2. I hadn't known until recently that South and North Korea were both similarly poor at the end of the Korean War.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        Nah. Japan was well on its way to industry in WW2. SK improved a lot yes but still not as much as China and unlike China prospects are dim for a lot of people and politics is somehow even more of a mess. I think the average Chinese citizen is a lot happier with their government than a Korean one. Having a prime minister puppetted by a cult doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
      - FooBarWidget 5y ago
        Yes that number is absurdly high. But it doesn't change the fact that I pulled it from the York University study https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/05/05/did-pandemic-shake-chinese-citizens-trust-their-government/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/05/05/did-pande... Do you know why I am angry and pushed to speak up so much about China lately? Because the reality on the ground turns out to be really different from mainsteam media depiction. For 25 years I have heard tropes like "Chinese people are oppressed" but when I did deeper research I found a very different picture. It's like watching my father (the west) defame my mother (China) for 25 years and then finding out that 90% of the accusations are distorted. You don't have to agree with me but please don't claim that I am being insincere. It's up to me to decide whether I am sincere or not.
    - bardan 5y ago
      I have personally noted a large quantity of CCP propaganda turning up on other social media. Voted up unusually high, unusually early, and by accounts that regularly wind up banned by the admins. As a normal user it can be hard to differentiate real shill accounts from motivated nationalists and/or supremacists, but it's absurd to say this sort of thing isn't likely going on, certainly not to claim any absolute knowledge of the subject.
- FooBarWidget 5y ago
  I am using my one and only account. I made a concious decision to that so people can verify my identify and 20-year long Internet history so that they can't just call me a "paid shill". You don't have to agree with me but please don't paint me as being insincere.
FooBarWidget 5y ago
Yes I am speaking about China a lot lately. Because I am Chinese, I care about the subject a lot, and the whole Cold War and all the media lies have made me angry and pushed me to speak up. You don't have to agree with me. But please don't say silly things like that I am a paid shill or that I don't belive what I say. I will remind you that I have a job. If you are not open to my arguments then don't listen to me. No need to defame me.
- bardan 5y ago
  Why, in your opinion, was her name censored on the PRC Internet? Why have international broadcasts in China been dropping out when her case is mentioned? Why did the CCP deny any knowledge of her situation, only to later say "she will be making a public appearance soon"?
  - FooBarWidget 5y ago
    First I want to know whether you genuinely want to know my opinion, or whether these are some sort of rethorical questions. After all, I see that you are worried about "shills" and "propaganda". If you are not open to alternative perspectives then there's no need to talk to me. We can agree to disagree and still respect each other.
    - bardan 5y ago
      I assume that you are a good-natured member of this community. Hacker News tends to have a higher grade of participant. I also note that I gave no indication about my opinion of you personally, despite your suggestion. Since that is cleared up, and since you seem to take an alternate viewpoint than mine, I will repeat my initial question: Why, in your opinion, was her name censored on the PRC Internet? Why have international broadcasts in China been dropping out when her case is mentioned? Why did the CCP deny any knowledge of her situation, only to later say "she will be making a public appearance soon"?
      - FooBarWidget 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

sudosysgen 5y ago

That's perfectly normal. If you're going to be accused of being a shill you might as well silo your accounts into one for serious matter and one everyone is going to adhominem into extinction.

Tostino 5y ago
I know it's not kosher here to accuse others of shilling, but you are acting like it doesn't happen. It absolutely does, all the time. Less on HN than other social media, maybe, but this place is far from immune.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  I'm sure it happens in the abstract. They're definitely not a shill though. As far as we've seen China has no shill operation outside of its borders outside of bots and some vote manipulation by Chinese companies for profit.
  - tomatofarmer 5y ago
    He may not be a paid shill, but he is not arguing from a position of sincerity. FooBarWidget is far too intelligent to actually believe half of what he's saying, especially his claim that 98% of Chinese citizens are happy with their government. That number is absurdly high. For reference, trust in government is 84% in Switzerland (highest in the OECD), 65% in Germany, 46% in the US, 42% in Japan, 35% in the UK. Even if the source of the claim is the WaPo, such an outlier deserves extreme scrutiny. https://data.oecd.org/gga/trust-in-government.htm https://data.oecd.org/gga/trust-in-government.htm Edit: Those conducting the survey probably experienced reactions similar to this: https://vimeo.com/44078865 https://vimeo.com/44078865
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      I agree that 98% is too high, but 90% is not unreasonable. There is no country in the world off the top of my head where the quality of life has improved more than in China. Additionally the Chinese government has a very skillful tactic where they make the local government much more accountable via the central government but charges it of all the unpopular things. That way it gets credit for the good while the local government is blamed for the bad. It's quite smart actually. His data probably comes from this research : https://ash.harvard.edu/publications/understanding-ccp-resilience-surveying-chinese-public-opinion-through-time https://ash.harvard.edu/publications/understanding-ccp-resil... The data comes from in-person interviews. One may think that they were scared of saying bad things but plenty of negative feedback was received, they just reported that most issues were solved and were happy with the progress. I the conclusion of dishonesty was much too quick.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - xxpor 5y ago
        Obviously older, but Japan and South Korea have probably improved even more if we look since the end of WW2. I hadn't known until recently that South and North Korea were both similarly poor at the end of the Korean War.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        Nah. Japan was well on its way to industry in WW2. SK improved a lot yes but still not as much as China and unlike China prospects are dim for a lot of people and politics is somehow even more of a mess. I think the average Chinese citizen is a lot happier with their government than a Korean one. Having a prime minister puppetted by a cult doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
    - FooBarWidget 5y ago
      Yes that number is absurdly high. But it doesn't change the fact that I pulled it from the York University study https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/05/05/did-pandemic-shake-chinese-citizens-trust-their-government/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/05/05/did-pande... Do you know why I am angry and pushed to speak up so much about China lately? Because the reality on the ground turns out to be really different from mainsteam media depiction. For 25 years I have heard tropes like "Chinese people are oppressed" but when I did deeper research I found a very different picture. It's like watching my father (the west) defame my mother (China) for 25 years and then finding out that 90% of the accusations are distorted. You don't have to agree with me but please don't claim that I am being insincere. It's up to me to decide whether I am sincere or not.
  - bardan 5y ago
    I have personally noted a large quantity of CCP propaganda turning up on other social media. Voted up unusually high, unusually early, and by accounts that regularly wind up banned by the admins. As a normal user it can be hard to differentiate real shill accounts from motivated nationalists and/or supremacists, but it's absurd to say this sort of thing isn't likely going on, certainly not to claim any absolute knowledge of the subject.
FooBarWidget 5y ago
I am using my one and only account. I made a concious decision to that so people can verify my identify and 20-year long Internet history so that they can't just call me a "paid shill". You don't have to agree with me but please don't paint me as being insincere.

FooBarWidget 5y ago

Yes I am speaking about China a lot lately. Because I am Chinese, I care about the subject a lot, and the whole Cold War and all the media lies have made me angry and pushed me to speak up. You don't have to agree with me. But please don't say silly things like that I am a paid shill or that I don't belive what I say. I will remind you that I have a job. If you are not open to my arguments then don't listen to me. No need to defame me.

bardan 5y ago
Why, in your opinion, was her name censored on the PRC Internet? Why have international broadcasts in China been dropping out when her case is mentioned? Why did the CCP deny any knowledge of her situation, only to later say "she will be making a public appearance soon"?
- FooBarWidget 5y ago
  First I want to know whether you genuinely want to know my opinion, or whether these are some sort of rethorical questions. After all, I see that you are worried about "shills" and "propaganda". If you are not open to alternative perspectives then there's no need to talk to me. We can agree to disagree and still respect each other.
  - bardan 5y ago
    I assume that you are a good-natured member of this community. Hacker News tends to have a higher grade of participant. I also note that I gave no indication about my opinion of you personally, despite your suggestion. Since that is cleared up, and since you seem to take an alternate viewpoint than mine, I will repeat my initial question: Why, in your opinion, was her name censored on the PRC Internet? Why have international broadcasts in China been dropping out when her case is mentioned? Why did the CCP deny any knowledge of her situation, only to later say "she will be making a public appearance soon"?
    - FooBarWidget 5y ago