4 ms·

Dropping like flies?

by alphabettsy 5y ago

Rezwoodly 5y ago
Yeah I'm prone to believe this is manufactured hysteria to drum up vaccination numbers. Fear mongering 101
- freemint 5y ago
  Why would they do that when it's not certain that the vaccine will work against the virus. I would suspect such news promoting hesitancy and people waiting a while longer.
User23 5y ago
Making no judgments as to the accuracy of the source or the underlying data, I believe this[1] is what’s being referred to. A fivefold increase in sudden cardiac deaths among FIFA athletes is pretty weird if it’s true. Presumably these athletes have pretty good cardiovascular health as well as proactive medical care relative to the general population. [1] https://stephenc.substack.com/p/5-fold-increase-in-sudden-cardiac https://stephenc.substack.com/p/5-fold-increase-in-sudden-ca...
- akomtu 5y ago
  GP made a valid point. The 5x increase of cardiac arrest after 2 shots might be OK if that risk was very low, but if you need to keep getting boosters twice a year, that risk will also grow (how? exponentially?), until one day it becomes a bigger problem than covid. That's my reasoning for waiting out on those booster shots.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - WJW 5y ago
    Going to assume you meant this seriously; but just to enumerate the things you aren't certain about: - IF the cardiac arrest risk indeed rises 5x - AND that is not related to study effects (perhaps the risk of those athletes using performance enhancing drugs which you presumably aren't using was many time higher than 5x) - AND the chance of of 5x higher cardiac arrest risk is higher than the increased risk you run of dying from COVID - AND the risk of booster shots increasing cardiac arrest risks (which has not been proven yet) is indeed exponential, which seems quite unlikely at first glance (since the dose of boosters is only increasing linearly over time) And several other factors I can't think of off the top of my head. It looks like you are assigning a very high risk to booster shots and assigning a very low risk to dying of COVID. Given the amount of people who have died of COVID vs the amount of people who have died from booster shots this seems like a misassignment of risk.
    - User23 5y ago
      One also must control for physical fitness and age. Those are by far the most powerful factors correlating to severe covid morbidity or mortality. The comparative disease vs vaccine risk assuredly differs between fit young FIFA players and obese geriatric persons. It may well be that even in the former case the vaccine reduces overall risk, but surely the effect is smaller than in the latter group.
    - akomtu 5y ago
      I don't need a study to learn that Pfizer/biontech vaccines mess up with heart rate, especially when excercising. I know that from personal experience. The heart rate issues seem to be long lasting, but the vaccines are no good after 6 months, as we know now. My problem is that if just 2 shots cause such effect, then after a few boosters I'll have to take heart rate control pills. I'd rather pass on boosters and use the good old masks and social distancing.
- 01100011 5y ago
  I don't know, but just to throw this out there, I believe very cardiovascularly 'fit' people have a risk of death because their heart rate can drop dangerously during sleep(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT8GZlBBv5k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT8GZlBBv5k). I would also think soccer players are more likely to use performance enhancing drugs. I wouldn't blame it on the vaccine without more data.
  - User23 5y ago
    Unless there’s also a corresponding increase in somnambulism, “sudden collapse” doesn’t sound like it’s related to sleep. The increase is over the last year. I don’t follow soccer so for all I know there has been an increase in PED year over year too. Or it could be any number of other confounding factors. As for the cause, I feign no hypotheses. I just think that if and only if this increase is real it merits further research by persons with far greater subject matter expertise than myself. If the science ends up showing it is vaccine related than we should accept that, just as we should if it shows it isn’t. Fortunately, for the sake of the science, we’re going to continue gathering a great deal of data.
- rpadovani 5y ago
  Well, football calendar, at least in Europe, has been crazy full since the suspension in the spring of 2020: https://www.fifpro.org/media/bffctrd1/at-the-limit.pdf https://www.fifpro.org/media/bffctrd1/at-the-limit.pdf This could be of course a cause of spike in deaths: I'd say way more data is necessary to find a cause.
- jsnell 5y ago
  Discussed at the time in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29242509 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29242509
qwertyuiop_ 5y ago
https://www-berliner--zeitung-de.translate.goog/news/raetselhafte-herzerkrankungen-im-fussball-li.193554?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui https://www-berliner--zeitung-de.translate.goog/news/raetsel... From the article .. Emergency situations have come up again and again in the last few weeks and months: Game abandoned due to in a game of Lauber SV (Donauwörth district) A 17-year-old soccer player from JSG Hoher Hagen has to be in Hannoversch Münden The has to be reanimated after a cardiac arrest. An assistant referee of a Kreisliga Augsburg game in Emersacker A district league player of the SpVgg. Oelde II has to be A player from the Birati Club Münster collapses in a regional league game against FC Nordkirchen II. 17-year-old soccer player Dylan Rich a heart attack during a game . The suffers a heart attack after a training session. Lucas Surek (24) from the BFC Chemie Leipzig club is unable to attend due to . Kingsley Coman (25) from FC Bayern Munich . Trainer Dirk Splitsteser from SG Traktor Divitz sidelines Rune Coghe (18) of the Belgian club Eendracht Hoglede (Belgium) suffers At the World Cup qualification match between Germany and Serbia in Chemnitz, an English line judge Team leader Dietmar Gladow from Thalheim (Bitterfeld) suffers before a game The 53-year-old football coach Antonello Campus . Anil Usta from VfB Schwelm (Ennepetal) collapses on the field . Dimitri Liénard from FC Strasbourg collapses with heart problems . Diego Ferchaud (16) from ASPTT Caen suffers in a U-18 league game in Saint-Lô Belgian football player Jente Van Genechten (25) suffers The Belgian amateur soccer player Jens De Smet (27) from Maldegem suddenly suffers a heart attack during the game and dies a little later in hospital. A 13-year-old soccer player from the Janus Nova club from Saccolongo (Italy) collapses Andrea Astolfi, the sports director of Calcio Orsago (Italy), suffers He dies at the age of 45. Abou Ali (22) collapses during a two-tier game in Denmark Fabrice N'Sakala (31) from Besiktas Istanbul collapses on the field without any action from the opponent
- angelzen 5y ago
  Similar cases have happened for decades. Perhaps the frequency has changed, but the phenomenon is rare enough that is hard to tell. Linked an article from 2012. https://www.cnn.com/2012/03/19/sport/health-muamba-heart-problems/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2012/03/19/sport/health-muamba-heart-pro...

Dropping like flies?

Rezwoodly 5y ago

Yeah I'm prone to believe this is manufactured hysteria to drum up vaccination numbers. Fear mongering 101

freemint 5y ago
Why would they do that when it's not certain that the vaccine will work against the virus. I would suspect such news promoting hesitancy and people waiting a while longer.

User23 5y ago

Making no judgments as to the accuracy of the source or the underlying data, I believe this[1] is what’s being referred to. A fivefold increase in sudden cardiac deaths among FIFA athletes is pretty weird if it’s true. Presumably these athletes have pretty good cardiovascular health as well as proactive medical care relative to the general population. [1] https://stephenc.substack.com/p/5-fold-increase-in-sudden-cardiac https://stephenc.substack.com/p/5-fold-increase-in-sudden-ca...

akomtu 5y ago
GP made a valid point. The 5x increase of cardiac arrest after 2 shots might be OK if that risk was very low, but if you need to keep getting boosters twice a year, that risk will also grow (how? exponentially?), until one day it becomes a bigger problem than covid. That's my reasoning for waiting out on those booster shots.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- WJW 5y ago
  Going to assume you meant this seriously; but just to enumerate the things you aren't certain about: - IF the cardiac arrest risk indeed rises 5x - AND that is not related to study effects (perhaps the risk of those athletes using performance enhancing drugs which you presumably aren't using was many time higher than 5x) - AND the chance of of 5x higher cardiac arrest risk is higher than the increased risk you run of dying from COVID - AND the risk of booster shots increasing cardiac arrest risks (which has not been proven yet) is indeed exponential, which seems quite unlikely at first glance (since the dose of boosters is only increasing linearly over time) And several other factors I can't think of off the top of my head. It looks like you are assigning a very high risk to booster shots and assigning a very low risk to dying of COVID. Given the amount of people who have died of COVID vs the amount of people who have died from booster shots this seems like a misassignment of risk.
  - User23 5y ago
    One also must control for physical fitness and age. Those are by far the most powerful factors correlating to severe covid morbidity or mortality. The comparative disease vs vaccine risk assuredly differs between fit young FIFA players and obese geriatric persons. It may well be that even in the former case the vaccine reduces overall risk, but surely the effect is smaller than in the latter group.
  - akomtu 5y ago
    I don't need a study to learn that Pfizer/biontech vaccines mess up with heart rate, especially when excercising. I know that from personal experience. The heart rate issues seem to be long lasting, but the vaccines are no good after 6 months, as we know now. My problem is that if just 2 shots cause such effect, then after a few boosters I'll have to take heart rate control pills. I'd rather pass on boosters and use the good old masks and social distancing.
01100011 5y ago
I don't know, but just to throw this out there, I believe very cardiovascularly 'fit' people have a risk of death because their heart rate can drop dangerously during sleep(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT8GZlBBv5k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT8GZlBBv5k). I would also think soccer players are more likely to use performance enhancing drugs. I wouldn't blame it on the vaccine without more data.
- User23 5y ago
  Unless there’s also a corresponding increase in somnambulism, “sudden collapse” doesn’t sound like it’s related to sleep. The increase is over the last year. I don’t follow soccer so for all I know there has been an increase in PED year over year too. Or it could be any number of other confounding factors. As for the cause, I feign no hypotheses. I just think that if and only if this increase is real it merits further research by persons with far greater subject matter expertise than myself. If the science ends up showing it is vaccine related than we should accept that, just as we should if it shows it isn’t. Fortunately, for the sake of the science, we’re going to continue gathering a great deal of data.
rpadovani 5y ago
Well, football calendar, at least in Europe, has been crazy full since the suspension in the spring of 2020: https://www.fifpro.org/media/bffctrd1/at-the-limit.pdf https://www.fifpro.org/media/bffctrd1/at-the-limit.pdf This could be of course a cause of spike in deaths: I'd say way more data is necessary to find a cause.
jsnell 5y ago
Discussed at the time in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29242509 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29242509

qwertyuiop_ 5y ago

https://www-berliner--zeitung-de.translate.goog/news/raetselhafte-herzerkrankungen-im-fussball-li.193554?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui https://www-berliner--zeitung-de.translate.goog/news/raetsel... From the article .. Emergency situations have come up again and again in the last few weeks and months: Game abandoned due to in a game of Lauber SV (Donauwörth district) A 17-year-old soccer player from JSG Hoher Hagen has to be in Hannoversch Münden The has to be reanimated after a cardiac arrest. An assistant referee of a Kreisliga Augsburg game in Emersacker A district league player of the SpVgg. Oelde II has to be A player from the Birati Club Münster collapses in a regional league game against FC Nordkirchen II. 17-year-old soccer player Dylan Rich a heart attack during a game . The suffers a heart attack after a training session. Lucas Surek (24) from the BFC Chemie Leipzig club is unable to attend due to . Kingsley Coman (25) from FC Bayern Munich . Trainer Dirk Splitsteser from SG Traktor Divitz sidelines Rune Coghe (18) of the Belgian club Eendracht Hoglede (Belgium) suffers At the World Cup qualification match between Germany and Serbia in Chemnitz, an English line judge Team leader Dietmar Gladow from Thalheim (Bitterfeld) suffers before a game The 53-year-old football coach Antonello Campus . Anil Usta from VfB Schwelm (Ennepetal) collapses on the field . Dimitri Liénard from FC Strasbourg collapses with heart problems . Diego Ferchaud (16) from ASPTT Caen suffers in a U-18 league game in Saint-Lô Belgian football player Jente Van Genechten (25) suffers The Belgian amateur soccer player Jens De Smet (27) from Maldegem suddenly suffers a heart attack during the game and dies a little later in hospital. A 13-year-old soccer player from the Janus Nova club from Saccolongo (Italy) collapses Andrea Astolfi, the sports director of Calcio Orsago (Italy), suffers He dies at the age of 45. Abou Ali (22) collapses during a two-tier game in Denmark Fabrice N'Sakala (31) from Besiktas Istanbul collapses on the field without any action from the opponent

angelzen 5y ago
Similar cases have happened for decades. Perhaps the frequency has changed, but the phenomenon is rare enough that is hard to tell. Linked an article from 2012. https://www.cnn.com/2012/03/19/sport/health-muamba-heart-problems/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2012/03/19/sport/health-muamba-heart-pro...