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To be picky, the timescale/locations of #23 is way off: Socrates (Athens= 470–399 BC Plato (Athens) 423-348 BC Aristotles (Athens) 384–322 BC Archimedes (of

by jaclaz 5y ago

To be picky, the timescale/locations of #23 is way off: Socrates (Athens= 470–399 BC Plato (Athens) 423-348 BC Aristotles (Athens) 384–322 BC Archimedes (of Syracuse) some 2-3 centuries later 287-212 BC Euclid (of Alexandria) was active in Alexandria around 300-270 BC Hyppocrates (of Kos) 470-360 BC Pytagoras (of Samos) 570–495 BC Thucydides (Athens) 460-400 BC Herodotus (of Halicarnassus) 484-425 BC Aesop (?) 620-564 BC Solon (Athens) 630-570 BC Pericles (Athens) 495–429 BC Aristophanes (Athens) 446-386 BC Sophocles (Athens) 497-406 the: >That some unknown miracle blend of circumstances happened to arrive in Athens in 500 BC leading a tiny city of 250k people to produce Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Archimedes, Euclid, Hippocrates, Pythagoras, Thucydides, Herodotus, Aesop, Solon, Pericles, Aristophanes, and Sophocles, and that it might be possible to intentionally recreate such conditions today around the world and spur incredible human flourishing, and why aren’t we working on this? is more accurately something like: In the course of several centuries over a vast territory comprising almost all inhabited mediterranean countries some 10-15 people excelled in their fields and many of them happened to live in the main city (and cultural capital) of the area. Sounds a lot less a miracle, between 630 and 300 BC is three centuries.

aduitsis 5y ago
That today, thousands of years later, we have managed to retain what those people said or wrote is also a very good reason to be thankful.
pratik661 5y ago
Also, the capital of a major economic/military power will usually attract the ambitious people from the surrounding regions. Its equivalent to saying "wow, so many famous actors lived in Hollywood!"
Lamad123 5y ago
Some of those haven't been reported to sit foot or have much to do with Athens!! At least Archimedes and Pythagoras.. Even Aristotle was a foreigner to Athens, although he learned a lot from his Athenian counterparts! Herodotus wasn't Athenian either!!
mistermann 5y ago
> is more accurately something like: > In the course of several centuries over a vast territory comprising almost all inhabited mediterranean countries some 10-15 people excelled in their fields and many of them happened to live in the main city (and cultural capital) of the area. Your restatement excluded what I think is the most interesting part: >> and that it might be possible to intentionally recreate such conditions today around the world and spur incredible human flourishing, and why aren’t we working on this? "Why aren't we working on this" seems like a very good question, one that you don't hear very often - "Why don't we even encounter these sorts of questions more often?" might be an interesting sibling question.
- jaclaz 5y ago
  Because recreating such conditions isn't possible, basically because such conditions never existed and the idilliac setup the article seems to describe never happened. The article seemingly conveys (at least to me) the idea that "by miracle" all those famous philosophers, writers and mathematicians were in the same place at the same time (and possibly had coffee or dinner together), this simply never happened. So, if the idea is about creating brand new conditions (which ones?) capable to create a city/location where - over three centuries - a handful of people, excelling in their field lived, this has already been done, let's say Rome 200 BC - 100 AD, London 1600-1900, i.e. more or less the capitals (administrative and/or cultural) of large empires that lasted several centuries.
  - mistermann 5y ago
    My interpretation of the intended meaning[1] of the author was to attempt to reproduce ~conditions conducive to producing this sort of effect. If you reconsider the idea under this reframing, does it seem like more of a reasonable, "maybe worth a try"-class idea? [1] where "such conditions" ~= "of the kind, character, quality, or extent"
- watwut 5y ago
  What about saying that such conditions exists right now in contemporary world. We have great amount of thinkers and scientists and technologists and populists and cult leaders. All of them producing and moving world forward. It is crowded competition, actually.
lr4444lr 5y ago
Plus, Archimedes not only was from Syracuse (Italy) but flourished under a complete (even if benevolent) monarch.
lnxg33k1 5y ago
And Aristippus the inventor of capitalism? :D Or Antisthenes the one I use to see how the mental issues were valued in the past? :D

by jaclaz 5y ago

aduitsis 5y ago

That today, thousands of years later, we have managed to retain what those people said or wrote is also a very good reason to be thankful.

pratik661 5y ago

Also, the capital of a major economic/military power will usually attract the ambitious people from the surrounding regions. Its equivalent to saying "wow, so many famous actors lived in Hollywood!"

Lamad123 5y ago

Some of those haven't been reported to sit foot or have much to do with Athens!! At least Archimedes and Pythagoras.. Even Aristotle was a foreigner to Athens, although he learned a lot from his Athenian counterparts! Herodotus wasn't Athenian either!!

mistermann 5y ago

> is more accurately something like: > In the course of several centuries over a vast territory comprising almost all inhabited mediterranean countries some 10-15 people excelled in their fields and many of them happened to live in the main city (and cultural capital) of the area. Your restatement excluded what I think is the most interesting part: >> and that it might be possible to intentionally recreate such conditions today around the world and spur incredible human flourishing, and why aren’t we working on this? "Why aren't we working on this" seems like a very good question, one that you don't hear very often - "Why don't we even encounter these sorts of questions more often?" might be an interesting sibling question.

jaclaz 5y ago
Because recreating such conditions isn't possible, basically because such conditions never existed and the idilliac setup the article seems to describe never happened. The article seemingly conveys (at least to me) the idea that "by miracle" all those famous philosophers, writers and mathematicians were in the same place at the same time (and possibly had coffee or dinner together), this simply never happened. So, if the idea is about creating brand new conditions (which ones?) capable to create a city/location where - over three centuries - a handful of people, excelling in their field lived, this has already been done, let's say Rome 200 BC - 100 AD, London 1600-1900, i.e. more or less the capitals (administrative and/or cultural) of large empires that lasted several centuries.
- mistermann 5y ago
  My interpretation of the intended meaning[1] of the author was to attempt to reproduce ~conditions conducive to producing this sort of effect. If you reconsider the idea under this reframing, does it seem like more of a reasonable, "maybe worth a try"-class idea? [1] where "such conditions" ~= "of the kind, character, quality, or extent"
watwut 5y ago
What about saying that such conditions exists right now in contemporary world. We have great amount of thinkers and scientists and technologists and populists and cult leaders. All of them producing and moving world forward. It is crowded competition, actually.

lr4444lr 5y ago

Plus, Archimedes not only was from Syracuse (Italy) but flourished under a complete (even if benevolent) monarch.

lnxg33k1 5y ago

And Aristippus the inventor of capitalism? :D Or Antisthenes the one I use to see how the mental issues were valued in the past? :D