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Yet scanning a QR code which uniquely identifies an individual to get into any venue is totally fine because we didn't update the source code yet and so it's no

Yet scanning a QR code which uniquely identifies an individual to get into any venue is totally fine because we didn't update the source code yet and so it's not phoning home this week. Well, if the source (of the scanner) is even legit, since the app stores provide no way to verify that anyway.

thepangolino 5y ago
The lack of pushback against that practice literally blew my mind. The potential for abuse is literally limitless. I’ve even personally seen the treatment I’ve received the moment my name popped up on their screen after getting scanned. (My fave doesn’t show it but I’m of heavy ethnic background)
throemdiwo 5y ago
Bless you. Of course, such things can only be muttered from throw away accounts.
soco 5y ago
Complaining about straw-man arguments is not bringing much. The facts are: the scanners code is opensource and does not phone home. The rest is fantasy - a valid ethical discussion of course, and it's up to us to discuss it properly (that is, keeping in touch with reality).
- nnamtr 5y ago
  A restaurant or company could use its own scanner app to save the data, but I assume this would be illegal
  - soco 5y ago
    Technically they could - if they had the skills (a restaurant with programmer staff?), had a the reason (risking to alienate the customers?) and had the guts to go against GDPR (somebody will spill the beans). So...
chriswarbo 5y ago
You can choose whether or not to show a QR code, or even disclose whether you have one, and to whom. Mass surveillance is imposed and can't be opted-out from (unless you have an invisibility device, in the case of widespread cameras). QR codes can also be discarded, or new ones issued. Biometrics (e.g. face structure) cannot be replaced once "compromised". I use quotes for the latter, since biometrics are never secret in the first place (e.g. if we could keep our faces, fingerprints, DNA, etc. secret then they'd be useless in criminal investigations!).
- Dma54rhs 5y ago
  Who cares about new qr code when you scan and receive the same PI every time? You can scan a new code but keep recording.
- emteycz 5y ago
  I am required to show a QR code to eat.
  - simion314 5y ago
    Can't you just show the paper with the proof of vaccination? Like I might not have a smartphone but I have the paper and ID card in my wallet.
    - emteycz 5y ago
      And the paper has a QR code and the checking application makes a request to a state-run server with its data (including owner ID).
      - sc11 5y ago
        That's incorrect, the verification happens fully locally. The check app occasionally has to update trusted certificates but otherwise it runs locally. No personal data is sent to any kind of server.
hammock 5y ago
The new German government is also anti-lockdown and presumably passport (at least moreso than Merkel). One of the first things he did was scrap Merkel's plans for a new two-week countrywide lockdown. It's also worth pointing out that Germany DOES recognize natural immunity and allows this to serve in place of a jab. Haven't seen that reported in US news but you can find it in European papers.
- tremon 5y ago
  One of the first things he did was scrap Merkel's plans for a new two-week countrywide lockdown. That lockdown was not a completely unfounded suggestion though, given that both the number of infected and the number of new cases/day are twice as high as during last year's peak [1] -- and last year's peak was around Christmas, not in November. [1] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/#graph-cases-daily https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/#g...
  - brummm 5y ago
    The majority are unvaccinated people. It's really their own god damn fault for not getting vaccinated. At the most there should be a lockdown for unvaccinated people.
    - pelasaco 5y ago
      I'm vaccinated and I'm German. Your suggestion ignores that vaccinated people are part of the transmission chain exactly as the non-vaccinated. We believed that vaccinated wouldn't transmit it, but they do. Kids too. If you are vaccinated and visit your grandma, you are putting her in risk. Testing everyone and quarantining the positives still our best bet to avoid social conflict while trying to fight this pandemic. References: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/impfdurchbrueche-impfquote-101.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/impfdurchbruec... (german)
      - 5y ago
ost-ing 5y ago
QR codes aren't effective at all as a surveillance mechanism. Why the hell does the government need to monitor which venues you visit based on QR code check-ins? They literally just ask Apple, Google, or any other big tech company about your phones geolocation and IP log history to monitor your whereabouts. Most people with accounts to these platforms have credit-cards, payment history and communication with others. There is nothing particularly special about vaccination QR codes being more unique than any of the other multitudes of data you already provide, willingly, to these tech corps.
- emteycz 5y ago
  Asking Google or Apple means asking a foreign corporation, likely through legal means and definitely targeted to individuals, not population-wide. Checking logs of a state-run server is way easier.
  - mod50ack 5y ago
    The QR verification app doesn't ping back to a server, though. You can literally check. It's open source.
    - emteycz 5y ago
      Not true. I just spent half an hour googling and otherwise looking for the source code, and it's not published anywhere (Czech version - apps named "čTečka" and "Tečka").
  - soco 5y ago
    Sorry for the reality check: said states make requests all the time to Google and Apple and also receive the requested data, and we have apparently no issue with this. Instead we use an imaginary feature no scanner outside China has (phoning home) and complain about that.
    - emteycz 5y ago
      That's alright - because that request goes through courts. When the state owns the server being requested, they just read the logs without having to consult a judge.
Dma54rhs 5y ago
Nothing will change with biometric and other mass surveillance either - the temporary feeling of security will always put these things first.

thepangolino 5y ago

The lack of pushback against that practice literally blew my mind. The potential for abuse is literally limitless. I’ve even personally seen the treatment I’ve received the moment my name popped up on their screen after getting scanned. (My fave doesn’t show it but I’m of heavy ethnic background)

throemdiwo 5y ago

Bless you. Of course, such things can only be muttered from throw away accounts.

soco 5y ago

Complaining about straw-man arguments is not bringing much. The facts are: the scanners code is opensource and does not phone home. The rest is fantasy - a valid ethical discussion of course, and it's up to us to discuss it properly (that is, keeping in touch with reality).

nnamtr 5y ago
A restaurant or company could use its own scanner app to save the data, but I assume this would be illegal
- soco 5y ago
  Technically they could - if they had the skills (a restaurant with programmer staff?), had a the reason (risking to alienate the customers?) and had the guts to go against GDPR (somebody will spill the beans). So...

chriswarbo 5y ago

You can choose whether or not to show a QR code, or even disclose whether you have one, and to whom. Mass surveillance is imposed and can't be opted-out from (unless you have an invisibility device, in the case of widespread cameras). QR codes can also be discarded, or new ones issued. Biometrics (e.g. face structure) cannot be replaced once "compromised". I use quotes for the latter, since biometrics are never secret in the first place (e.g. if we could keep our faces, fingerprints, DNA, etc. secret then they'd be useless in criminal investigations!).

Dma54rhs 5y ago
Who cares about new qr code when you scan and receive the same PI every time? You can scan a new code but keep recording.
emteycz 5y ago
I am required to show a QR code to eat.
- simion314 5y ago
  Can't you just show the paper with the proof of vaccination? Like I might not have a smartphone but I have the paper and ID card in my wallet.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    And the paper has a QR code and the checking application makes a request to a state-run server with its data (including owner ID).
    - sc11 5y ago
      That's incorrect, the verification happens fully locally. The check app occasionally has to update trusted certificates but otherwise it runs locally. No personal data is sent to any kind of server.

hammock 5y ago

The new German government is also anti-lockdown and presumably passport (at least moreso than Merkel). One of the first things he did was scrap Merkel's plans for a new two-week countrywide lockdown. It's also worth pointing out that Germany DOES recognize natural immunity and allows this to serve in place of a jab. Haven't seen that reported in US news but you can find it in European papers.

tremon 5y ago
One of the first things he did was scrap Merkel's plans for a new two-week countrywide lockdown. That lockdown was not a completely unfounded suggestion though, given that both the number of infected and the number of new cases/day are twice as high as during last year's peak [1] -- and last year's peak was around Christmas, not in November. [1] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/#graph-cases-daily https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/#g...
- brummm 5y ago
  The majority are unvaccinated people. It's really their own god damn fault for not getting vaccinated. At the most there should be a lockdown for unvaccinated people.
  - pelasaco 5y ago
    I'm vaccinated and I'm German. Your suggestion ignores that vaccinated people are part of the transmission chain exactly as the non-vaccinated. We believed that vaccinated wouldn't transmit it, but they do. Kids too. If you are vaccinated and visit your grandma, you are putting her in risk. Testing everyone and quarantining the positives still our best bet to avoid social conflict while trying to fight this pandemic. References: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/impfdurchbrueche-impfquote-101.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/impfdurchbruec... (german)
    - 5y ago

ost-ing 5y ago

QR codes aren't effective at all as a surveillance mechanism. Why the hell does the government need to monitor which venues you visit based on QR code check-ins? They literally just ask Apple, Google, or any other big tech company about your phones geolocation and IP log history to monitor your whereabouts. Most people with accounts to these platforms have credit-cards, payment history and communication with others. There is nothing particularly special about vaccination QR codes being more unique than any of the other multitudes of data you already provide, willingly, to these tech corps.

emteycz 5y ago
Asking Google or Apple means asking a foreign corporation, likely through legal means and definitely targeted to individuals, not population-wide. Checking logs of a state-run server is way easier.
- mod50ack 5y ago
  The QR verification app doesn't ping back to a server, though. You can literally check. It's open source.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    Not true. I just spent half an hour googling and otherwise looking for the source code, and it's not published anywhere (Czech version - apps named "čTečka" and "Tečka").
- soco 5y ago
  Sorry for the reality check: said states make requests all the time to Google and Apple and also receive the requested data, and we have apparently no issue with this. Instead we use an imaginary feature no scanner outside China has (phoning home) and complain about that.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    That's alright - because that request goes through courts. When the state owns the server being requested, they just read the logs without having to consult a judge.

Dma54rhs 5y ago

Nothing will change with biometric and other mass surveillance either - the temporary feeling of security will always put these things first.