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> The fact we're more free today doesn't matter, we're still compelled to work if we wish to avoid misery. This is part of the human condition. Goods don't mag

> The fact we're more free today doesn't matter, we're still compelled to work if we wish to avoid misery. This is part of the human condition. Goods don't magically appear out of thin air (at least not yet) - they're created by directed action, i.e. - work. By your definition, every human that exists and have ever existed is/was a slave.

matheusmoreira 5y ago
> By your definition, every human that exists and have ever existed is/was a slave. Not every human has or had to work in order to have their needs met. The elites have always existed and it seems they will continue to exist.
- burntoutfire 5y ago
  That's not really related to my point, which was that your definition of slavery is a non sequitur.
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    Of course it is. You asserted that by my definition every human was a slave. This is obviously false since there is a minority that managed to free themselves from this suffering somehow. They make others do the work for them.
    - burntoutfire 5y ago
      People with means also have to work to preserve their position - at the very least they need to navigate laws, invest smartly, be on the lookout for possible political upheavals etc. Nothing is free, and wealth preservation can be a lot of worry in itself. Just ask anyone in the FIRE subreddit. Of course, technically you're right - there will always exist a minority of people who were so wealthy (and lucky) that, even though they didn't care about wealth preservation, their wealth didn't run out before they died. If, in addition, these people inherited all their wealth (as opposed to doing any work to obtain it), then they are the (only) non-slaves by your definition, proving that not EVERYONE is a slave.
      - solaceb 5y ago
        An excellent point. Only 99% of all people are slaves.
        burntoutfire 5y ago
        Still, calling people like Warren Buffet or Steve Jobs (none of them inherited wealth) "slaves" severely misses the point.
        CRConrad 5y ago
        But the only one who did that was you.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

> By your definition, every human that exists and have ever existed is/was a slave. Not every human has or had to work in order to have their needs met. The elites have always existed and it seems they will continue to exist.

burntoutfire 5y ago
That's not really related to my point, which was that your definition of slavery is a non sequitur.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  Of course it is. You asserted that by my definition every human was a slave. This is obviously false since there is a minority that managed to free themselves from this suffering somehow. They make others do the work for them.
  - burntoutfire 5y ago
    People with means also have to work to preserve their position - at the very least they need to navigate laws, invest smartly, be on the lookout for possible political upheavals etc. Nothing is free, and wealth preservation can be a lot of worry in itself. Just ask anyone in the FIRE subreddit. Of course, technically you're right - there will always exist a minority of people who were so wealthy (and lucky) that, even though they didn't care about wealth preservation, their wealth didn't run out before they died. If, in addition, these people inherited all their wealth (as opposed to doing any work to obtain it), then they are the (only) non-slaves by your definition, proving that not EVERYONE is a slave.
    - solaceb 5y ago
      An excellent point. Only 99% of all people are slaves.
      - burntoutfire 5y ago
        Still, calling people like Warren Buffet or Steve Jobs (none of them inherited wealth) "slaves" severely misses the point.
        CRConrad 5y ago
        But the only one who did that was you.