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It's not. I think you just need to go out more. Social skills are not improved by spending all your time indoor in front of your computer playing with the lates

It's not. I think you just need to go out more. Social skills are not improved by spending all your time indoor in front of your computer playing with the latest cool new framework, or learning about ML from youtube or grinding leetcode for that next fancy job or playing videogames or watching Netflix. IMHO social skills are easy to pick up, and that's coming from an introvert, you just need to put yourself out there as much as possible in as many new situations as possible, even though that means you'll miss out on the latest tech developments/opportunities or that latest Netflix show. Basically you need to constantly keep venturing out of your usual routines and comfort zones and you need to be OK with failing at a lot of those new endeavors since there's no one size fits all formula for success here. You need to find your own way and pe prepared to feel exhausted a lot. I think tech workers are most affected by this because of the SW dev culture both in workers and in employers that have normalized this FOMO driven, "carrot dangling on a stick", need to keep up with the latest tech developments or grind leetcode or you'll face the risk of becoming outdated and be overtaken by more ambitious new-grads, or be offshored, or just miss out on the more lucrative career opportunities, which is not helped by ageism and old-tech-stack-ism discrimination when hiring, plus crazy long multi stage interview sessions, take-homes assignments and what have you, that massively eat into your free time whenever you switch jobs, so these people are most likely the ones who have spend their prime years mostly indoor in front of a screen working away on code and algos, chasing that top dream job, instead of "out-there" working with people.

thewarrior 5y ago
I can try to help out with my haphazard guide to social skills that I’ve picked up from my experiences. This is tailored to the biases most nerds have towards social interactions. 1. Stop trying to make sense of everything people do in social situations using logic. There is a deeper logic to most things people do however you are much better off imitating what others do at first. And then observing and taking feedback. Social situations unfold too quickly to use logic and thought. Practice the rest consciously till they become habit. Start with a few at a time. 2. Pay attention to how you dress, how you speak. Observe other popular people around you and try to imitate their mannerisms and sense of style. 3. Break the above rule sometimes so you stand out and people remember you for something. Steve Jobs understood this very well. Cultivate a sense of style and keep putting it out. 4. Whenever you are interacting with another person stop thinking about yourself too much. You should be absorbing everything you can about the other person. Their goals, their hopes, their dreams, their fears. Obviously you do it step by step and don’t escalate to these directly. 5. Invite people you want to get closer to for meals, dinners or just to hang out. Find common interests and hobbies to establish rapport. Have a social calendar going to regularly have interactions with the key people in your life. 6. Understand how status and power run most of our world. Understand the pressures that managers and people in power face so you can anticipate what they will do. You will survive even if you are not very effective if you don’t create headaches for those in charge 7. Learn to stand your ground without being confrontational and cleverly diffusing conflict using poise and language. 8. Stay calm and collected. Never be too desperate. 9. Visibility is the name of the game. Nobody can care about you if they don’t know you exist. 10. Never underestimate the power of an emotional appeal. 11. Never under estimate peoples deep felt need to feel validated by and connected to other people. The more genuine it feels the better. 12. Try not to be too in your face or public about your ambitions. Try to avoid open competition or making enemies wherever possible. 13. Everything in the world is one irrational monkey deciding to enter into an exchange with another irrational monkey. 14. The irrationality comes from the lower brain. It’s well understood that people have very poor defenses against this generally. Putting a pretty woman on a bill board is dumb but it works. I know that Axe Body spray will not result in women swarming all over me but it’s the only mens spray brand that I can even remember. The lower brain cares about tasty food, beautiful scenery, safety and warmth, status and validation, sex, power etc. 15. Meditate to get your lower brain under control. Understand how others lower brains can lead them astray and short circuit most rational calculations. Politicians understand this very well.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "Whenever you are interacting with another person stop thinking about yourself too much. You should be absorbing everything you can about the other person. Their goals, their hopes, their dreams, their fears. Obviously you do it step by step and don’t escalate to these directly." With the absolute phrasing of "Whenever you are interacting with another person" I strongly have to disagree. It is very important to learn how to protect yourself from other peoples "goals, hopes, dreams, fears" unless you really want to connect to that person. True human connection comes, when both sides are interested in a connection and not if one or both sides are faking interest.
  - bluepizza 5y ago
    True human connection is an special event. Most of your life, you need to be able to go about your day, while everybody else is also going about their days. Most people are not interested in a two sided connection with you specifically - they have other people that they are already spending energy and effort in connecting. Superficial connections are the bread and butter of socialization.
- gonzo41 5y ago
  16. Remember things and topics of conversation about the people you meet and ask about those things about them next time you meet. Even if you know how things are going, or it's boring, It's polite and it shows you care enough to remember and ask.
  - BeFlatXIII 5y ago
    At that point, I may as well give up. I can continue where we left off once the other person brings up the subject, but being the one to correctly remember which conversation went with which person is not a game I expect to win.
    - leodriesch 5y ago
      I recently started to write down a couple of notes after talking to people. It sure feels a little weird, like a sketchy salesman, but it might come in handy to read these before engaging in conversation with a person in the future. Especially when you have multiple circles where you meet many people occasionally.
ZephyrBlu 5y ago
> you just need to put yourself out there as much as possible in as many new situations as possible That's a big "just". It takes a lot of time and effort that you might want to spend elsewhere: https://blog.asmartbear.com/two-big-things.html https://blog.asmartbear.com/two-big-things.html > so these people are most likely the ones who have spend their prime years mostly indoor in front of a screen working away on code and algos, chasing that top dream job, instead of "out-there" working with people Who is to say one is strictly better than the other? Sitting indoors in front of a screen for a few years can set you up for life.
- RealityVoid 5y ago
  I find min-maxing real life rarely to be a good strategy. And obviously, OP feels this is a problem for him, and if so, he should know how to abd be able to address it.
  - ZephyrBlu 5y ago
    What part of my comment is about min-maxing real life? The GP addresses "tech workers" in general, not just OP with comments about sitting indoors. My response is in that context, not directed at OP.
    - notreallyserio 5y ago
      The asmartbear blog post comes across a little min-max-y, what with the concrete numbers and assertion that you can't have a job, spouse, and kids at the same time.
- beowulfey 5y ago
  Well, OP was specifically asking why it seems harder to learn social skills compared to machine learning, so in that context I’d guess the sitting inside was leaving them feeling unfulfilled.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >That's a big "just". It takes a lot of time and effort that you might want to spend elsewhere That's true for everything in life as the amount of hours in a day and the amount of days in your life is finite, so it depends on your priorities where you choose to allocate your time and effort. Do you want to chase a top dev career and money? Fine, but don't complain you lock social skills. Do you want to chase social interactions, traveling and partying? Also fine, but don't complain you can't land a top career. >Who is to say one is strictly better than the other? Where did I say that one is better? My point was to exemplify that prioritizing one thing (SW career for example) for multiple years has a consequences of leaving you behind in other areas (social contacts and experiences). >Sitting indoors in front of a screen for a few years can set you up for life. True, and maybe it does, but what if it doesn't due to other factors out of your control and it was survivorship bias at play so you spent your prime years chasing wheelchair wealth instead of enjoying the years and experiences that are never coming back? You can't go back to the high-school or college parties you missed out on, if you're set up for life in your 30's. Time waits for no man and there are no guarantees in life. Even the whole "set up for life" allegory can be a wild goose chase, as unless you have full health and fuck you money, you're never really set-up for life. Again, neither approach is bad or wrong, but it's important to constantly evaluate the consequences and drawbacks of your choices and make corrections when necessary to make sure you stay on track of doing what makes you happy and not get stuck mindlessly running on a hamster wheel chasing a carrot on a stick till you drop dead because of FOMO or pressure from society.
xwdv 5y ago
> so these people are most likely the ones who have spend their prime years mostly indoor in front of a screen working away on code and algos, chasing that top dream job, instead of "out-there" working with people. God damn, this is the cherry on top for an entire post that was a pile of borderline condescending platitudes. This hand wavy advice of just going “out there” and interacting with people is unhelpful. Out where? Be specific. Changing where you are isn’t going to fix your problem. You’ll just end up going out to do things you don’t really care about or like just so you can get some interaction with people you may not have much in common with. And when you get tired you’ll just go back home and do the solitary anti-social things you actually enjoy and be your real self again. Pretending to be an extrovert will do you no favors in discovering how you actually want to socialize. To really learn social skills, you first have to start with what do you hope to gain from having them? Then you can work backwards and figure out how to get there. Many times it doesn’t even have to involve going “out there”. Some of the most intense socializing I’ve done was during the COVID lockdowns of 2020.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >[...]an entire post that was a pile of borderline condescending platitudes. This hand wavy advice of just going “out there” and interacting with people is unhelpful[...] Please. I can't speak for you and there's no way for me to know what hobbies you have in order to give you precise advice for what you should do with your life. Nor do I know exactly where you live, what your culture is like in terms of socializing, and what social opportunities you have in your area. Nor is it my responsibility to do that for you. So my post was intentional like that as it's up to you to figure out where exactly "out there" you need to go to fulfill your goal of improving your social skills as I can't do it for you.

thewarrior 5y ago

I can try to help out with my haphazard guide to social skills that I’ve picked up from my experiences. This is tailored to the biases most nerds have towards social interactions. 1. Stop trying to make sense of everything people do in social situations using logic. There is a deeper logic to most things people do however you are much better off imitating what others do at first. And then observing and taking feedback. Social situations unfold too quickly to use logic and thought. Practice the rest consciously till they become habit. Start with a few at a time. 2. Pay attention to how you dress, how you speak. Observe other popular people around you and try to imitate their mannerisms and sense of style. 3. Break the above rule sometimes so you stand out and people remember you for something. Steve Jobs understood this very well. Cultivate a sense of style and keep putting it out. 4. Whenever you are interacting with another person stop thinking about yourself too much. You should be absorbing everything you can about the other person. Their goals, their hopes, their dreams, their fears. Obviously you do it step by step and don’t escalate to these directly. 5. Invite people you want to get closer to for meals, dinners or just to hang out. Find common interests and hobbies to establish rapport. Have a social calendar going to regularly have interactions with the key people in your life. 6. Understand how status and power run most of our world. Understand the pressures that managers and people in power face so you can anticipate what they will do. You will survive even if you are not very effective if you don’t create headaches for those in charge 7. Learn to stand your ground without being confrontational and cleverly diffusing conflict using poise and language. 8. Stay calm and collected. Never be too desperate. 9. Visibility is the name of the game. Nobody can care about you if they don’t know you exist. 10. Never underestimate the power of an emotional appeal. 11. Never under estimate peoples deep felt need to feel validated by and connected to other people. The more genuine it feels the better. 12. Try not to be too in your face or public about your ambitions. Try to avoid open competition or making enemies wherever possible. 13. Everything in the world is one irrational monkey deciding to enter into an exchange with another irrational monkey. 14. The irrationality comes from the lower brain. It’s well understood that people have very poor defenses against this generally. Putting a pretty woman on a bill board is dumb but it works. I know that Axe Body spray will not result in women swarming all over me but it’s the only mens spray brand that I can even remember. The lower brain cares about tasty food, beautiful scenery, safety and warmth, status and validation, sex, power etc. 15. Meditate to get your lower brain under control. Understand how others lower brains can lead them astray and short circuit most rational calculations. Politicians understand this very well.

hutzlibu 5y ago
"Whenever you are interacting with another person stop thinking about yourself too much. You should be absorbing everything you can about the other person. Their goals, their hopes, their dreams, their fears. Obviously you do it step by step and don’t escalate to these directly." With the absolute phrasing of "Whenever you are interacting with another person" I strongly have to disagree. It is very important to learn how to protect yourself from other peoples "goals, hopes, dreams, fears" unless you really want to connect to that person. True human connection comes, when both sides are interested in a connection and not if one or both sides are faking interest.
- bluepizza 5y ago
  True human connection is an special event. Most of your life, you need to be able to go about your day, while everybody else is also going about their days. Most people are not interested in a two sided connection with you specifically - they have other people that they are already spending energy and effort in connecting. Superficial connections are the bread and butter of socialization.
gonzo41 5y ago
16. Remember things and topics of conversation about the people you meet and ask about those things about them next time you meet. Even if you know how things are going, or it's boring, It's polite and it shows you care enough to remember and ask.
- BeFlatXIII 5y ago
  At that point, I may as well give up. I can continue where we left off once the other person brings up the subject, but being the one to correctly remember which conversation went with which person is not a game I expect to win.
  - leodriesch 5y ago
    I recently started to write down a couple of notes after talking to people. It sure feels a little weird, like a sketchy salesman, but it might come in handy to read these before engaging in conversation with a person in the future. Especially when you have multiple circles where you meet many people occasionally.

ZephyrBlu 5y ago

> you just need to put yourself out there as much as possible in as many new situations as possible That's a big "just". It takes a lot of time and effort that you might want to spend elsewhere: https://blog.asmartbear.com/two-big-things.html https://blog.asmartbear.com/two-big-things.html > so these people are most likely the ones who have spend their prime years mostly indoor in front of a screen working away on code and algos, chasing that top dream job, instead of "out-there" working with people Who is to say one is strictly better than the other? Sitting indoors in front of a screen for a few years can set you up for life.

RealityVoid 5y ago
I find min-maxing real life rarely to be a good strategy. And obviously, OP feels this is a problem for him, and if so, he should know how to abd be able to address it.
- ZephyrBlu 5y ago
  What part of my comment is about min-maxing real life? The GP addresses "tech workers" in general, not just OP with comments about sitting indoors. My response is in that context, not directed at OP.
  - notreallyserio 5y ago
    The asmartbear blog post comes across a little min-max-y, what with the concrete numbers and assertion that you can't have a job, spouse, and kids at the same time.
beowulfey 5y ago
Well, OP was specifically asking why it seems harder to learn social skills compared to machine learning, so in that context I’d guess the sitting inside was leaving them feeling unfulfilled.
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>That's a big "just". It takes a lot of time and effort that you might want to spend elsewhere That's true for everything in life as the amount of hours in a day and the amount of days in your life is finite, so it depends on your priorities where you choose to allocate your time and effort. Do you want to chase a top dev career and money? Fine, but don't complain you lock social skills. Do you want to chase social interactions, traveling and partying? Also fine, but don't complain you can't land a top career. >Who is to say one is strictly better than the other? Where did I say that one is better? My point was to exemplify that prioritizing one thing (SW career for example) for multiple years has a consequences of leaving you behind in other areas (social contacts and experiences). >Sitting indoors in front of a screen for a few years can set you up for life. True, and maybe it does, but what if it doesn't due to other factors out of your control and it was survivorship bias at play so you spent your prime years chasing wheelchair wealth instead of enjoying the years and experiences that are never coming back? You can't go back to the high-school or college parties you missed out on, if you're set up for life in your 30's. Time waits for no man and there are no guarantees in life. Even the whole "set up for life" allegory can be a wild goose chase, as unless you have full health and fuck you money, you're never really set-up for life. Again, neither approach is bad or wrong, but it's important to constantly evaluate the consequences and drawbacks of your choices and make corrections when necessary to make sure you stay on track of doing what makes you happy and not get stuck mindlessly running on a hamster wheel chasing a carrot on a stick till you drop dead because of FOMO or pressure from society.

xwdv 5y ago

> so these people are most likely the ones who have spend their prime years mostly indoor in front of a screen working away on code and algos, chasing that top dream job, instead of "out-there" working with people. God damn, this is the cherry on top for an entire post that was a pile of borderline condescending platitudes. This hand wavy advice of just going “out there” and interacting with people is unhelpful. Out where? Be specific. Changing where you are isn’t going to fix your problem. You’ll just end up going out to do things you don’t really care about or like just so you can get some interaction with people you may not have much in common with. And when you get tired you’ll just go back home and do the solitary anti-social things you actually enjoy and be your real self again. Pretending to be an extrovert will do you no favors in discovering how you actually want to socialize. To really learn social skills, you first have to start with what do you hope to gain from having them? Then you can work backwards and figure out how to get there. Many times it doesn’t even have to involve going “out there”. Some of the most intense socializing I’ve done was during the COVID lockdowns of 2020.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>[...]an entire post that was a pile of borderline condescending platitudes. This hand wavy advice of just going “out there” and interacting with people is unhelpful[...] Please. I can't speak for you and there's no way for me to know what hobbies you have in order to give you precise advice for what you should do with your life. Nor do I know exactly where you live, what your culture is like in terms of socializing, and what social opportunities you have in your area. Nor is it my responsibility to do that for you. So my post was intentional like that as it's up to you to figure out where exactly "out there" you need to go to fulfill your goal of improving your social skills as I can't do it for you.